Asking King for troops also increases REF

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Asking King for troops at 50% price seemed like a great idea when I played. It was also one of the reasons why you would not want to anger the King by not giving money when he asks (since he would refuse to sell troops if he was annoyed).

But, as I found reading some threads and through in game testing, every time you get troops from king, it factors into increasing his Royal Expeditionary Force.

As far as I understand the code (and was explained in one of the threads), every time you buy soldiers or cannons from the king, it adds number of liberty bells equal to price you paid to get those troops.

So, if you buy solider for 750gp, it adds 750 LB for calculating REF.

This does not get obvious at first, since in case you gain no liberty bells per turn, King REF does not increase, even if you bought several units from him.

But the moment you add first +3LB statesmen in the settlement, all those bells from units you bought will be added to the pool, and you'll get REF increases every turn, for next 5-15 years (as long as you gain at least +1LB from statesmen), until those LB generated from buying troops are spent.

So, if you, like me in one game, bought around 6 cannons and 6 veterans soldiers through the King discount, expect to have REF higher for amount equal to 9000 liberty bells, compared to player who hasn't used "King's discount".


To make sure of this, I did a test case, when I started the game on Conquistador difficulty and added extra 5000gold after founding my first town (using world builder). Then I bought one veteran solider from the King. Pressed enter, nothing happens, again, nothing happens. Then I moved colonist from field to town hall (+3LB). Pressed enter, REF increase, pressed enter, REF increase, etc... Lasted for around 10 turns. Bought cannon. Same thing (REF increase for several turns).



P.S.
Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed to discover how this works. Getting troops from King seemed like cool mechanic to reward player for being friendly to the King, but was actually just a disguise for yet another penalizing mechanic (with very heavy penalty).

What is especially weird is that asking troops from king increases REF, while being disobedient (like refusing to give gold) does not.


P.P.S.
I'll probably never again use this option again, exempt in dire emergency (like sudden war with indians or other europeans, when I need troops ASAP).
 
Asking King for troops at 50% price seemed like a great idea when I played. It was also one of the reasons why you would not want to anger the King by not giving money when he asks (since he would refuse to sell troops if he was annoyed).

But, as I found reading some threads and through in game testing, every time you get troops from king, it factors into increasing his Royal Expeditionary Force.

As far as I understand the code (and was explained in one of the threads), every time you buy soldiers or cannons from the king, it adds number of liberty bells equal to price you paid to get those troops.

So, if you buy solider for 750gp, it adds 750 LB for calculating REF.

This does not get obvious at first, since in case you gain no liberty bells per turn, King REF does not increase, even if you bought several units from him.

But the moment you add first +3LB statesmen in the settlement, all those bells from units you bought will be added to the pool, and you'll get REF increases every turn, for next 5-15 years (as long as you gain at least +1LB from statesmen), until those LB generated from buying troops are spent.

So, if you, like me in one game, bought around 6 cannons and 6 veterans soldiers through the King discount, expect to have REF higher for amount equal to 9000 liberty bells, compared to player who hasn't used "King's discount".


To make sure of this, I did a test case, when I started the game on Conquistador difficulty and added extra 5000gold after founding my first town (using world builder). Then I bought one veteran solider from the King. Pressed enter, nothing happens, again, nothing happens. Then I moved colonist from field to town hall (+3LB). Pressed enter, REF increase, pressed enter, REF increase, etc... Lasted for around 10 turns. Bought cannon. Same thing (REF increase for several turns).



P.S.
Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed to discover how this works. Getting troops from King seemed like cool mechanic to reward player for being friendly to the King, but was actually just a disguise for yet another penalizing mechanic (with very heavy penalty).

What is especially weird is that asking troops from king increases REF, while being disobedient (like refusing to give gold) does not.


P.P.S.
I'll probably never again use this option again, exempt in dire emergency (like sudden war with indians or other europeans, when I need troops ASAP).

Try to buy cannon from europe $ button, or build on your own. On the same turn, build bell. I can assure you the king would increase his army TOO.

So, my guess is that it has nothing to do with there do you get the army, it is do you have the army + rebel %. If both terms are positive, king will increase his army. The more rebel %, or more army you got, or both (might be a multiplication), the faster king would increase his army.

That is why, people better not built bell before newspaper, then build VERY fast and try to delete some NON useful combat units (e.g. converted native cannot fight) to increase the rebel %. And, it is better to hide your gun/horse in wagon or ships. Moreover, each city capable of build cannon or ship, please switch them to other production when it has 1 turn left to complete. There are other tricks...
 
Army size as such does not directly affect the REF.
Building units yourself or buying them fro Europe does not directly affect the REF.
(Both do indirectly tho, as you need more LB to make them Rebel.)

Byuing units from the King does add to the REF-Bad-Karma counter, and hence does directly affect the REF (And you still need the Bells to Rebel them).
 
There is a possible - not sure about the balance - easy fix.

In the GlobalDefines.xml there is a entry:
<DefineName>KING_BUY_UNIT_PRICE_MODIFIER</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>

(50 meaning 50% price)

It is used in both calculations - for the Discount and the amount of LB you get...
If you set it to 0 it will make the king:

a) Gift you the unit
b) not punish you with LB's for it.

This would make a happy King really usefull. Might be a bit unbalanced compared to buying units. Then again - you can't take too many of these free units - the King will give you some Diplo - for taking these, and you also need to make them Rebel later...
 
Still, you could get away with lots of free veterans and cannons at no cost. Pretty unbalancing. :undecide:
 
There is still the gold you pay the king to keep him happy. He will often ask at very inconviniet moments, and can be pretty high as well.
And you would have to give in to each and every of them. Refusing just one or two is enought to make him Annoyed, so he will give you no troops again - ever.

So all in one these units are everyting else than "free".

-----

I don't say it is the perfect solution. But just because something is "free", not makes it necessarily unbalancing. (Anbalancing for Who anyway ? Everyone play by the same rules...)

At any rate, as it is now, there is absolutely no reason to give in to his Money demands - there is no benefit to be gained there at all.
Even worse: the only thing it will let you do - Buy units from him - is harmfull.
750 Virtual Bells for the first veteran soldie is roughly equivalent to a city making 18 LB for ~40 turns.
 
Wow more poor design choices...was Col 2 some interns' summer project? I am thinking the best 2 or 3 Civ4 modders and some artists could have done better as a scenario, and finished it in 1/4 the time...
 
Hmm...
When we are at money demands...

If we are more "devious", we could code in similar mechanic for refused gold demands. Adding "fake" liberty bells equal to the amount of gold we failed to provide.
 
Hmm...
When we are at money demands...

If we are more "devious", we could code in similar mechanic for refused gold demands. Adding "fake" liberty bells equal to the amount of gold we failed to provide.

If we did that, we would have to reduce the amount of liberty bells needed for each REF increase. Sometimes I get demands for over 5,000 gold :eek:
 
Well, at least it would be no more penalizing them buying units from king (when he also loses gold due to paying 50% cost). :D

Why doesn't the king have an economy? Why not getting informed about how much money he has? Could be interesting and actually mean you could blackmail him at times.
 
I tried the KING_BUY_UNIT_PRICE_MODIFIER = 0 thingy, and it's terrible.
Apparently the price is also used to determine the chance of the Request to Succed and the chance to get the "Drain on Military -".

At 0 Price the King will give me unlimited amount of units and never give the Diplo penalty.

:(
 
I tried the KING_BUY_UNIT_PRICE_MODIFIER = 0 thingy, and it's terrible.
Apparently the price is also used to determine the chance of the Request to Succed and the chance to get the "Drain on Military -".

At 0 Price the King will give me unlimited amount of units and never give the Diplo penalty.

:(
You could declare independence in 1500! :lol:
 
:lol:
How didn't i think of that my self...

I was just thinking about using these troops against the other colonies for the Glory of the Empire. :crazyeye:
I guess i am to loyal for this game...
 
Ohhh dear, another broken element.
 
Sure the king arrives with a REF twice the size of your forces in ships which are impregnable. But that is the point of the game ... how to defeat a larger force on your own territory.

Here's something to think about ... the king cannot replace any of his troops when they are killed but you can replace yours. And that's how you win. Providing you survive the initial attacks by a larger force, your ability to churn out new troops while the war goes on is what decides it in the end.
 
It's not about the REF growing large. It's about why it does.
As it stands, the Kings Diplomacy is a non-feature - There is no befit in giving him anything. Asking him for Troops is harmfull. Refusing Taxes is pointless - he will ask again next turn untill you run out of goods to party.
 
What Multiplier ?
You want more REF ? You need to reduce the REVOLUTION_EUROPE_UNIT_THRESHOLD or THRESHOLD_INCREASE.
 
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