Assumption: DLC protected by technical means and consequences

[Commander Bello]

Disclaimer: Mods, this thread is about the protection of DLC, not necessarily (although the topic will be touched) about Steam. In case you are not fine with such new thread, please transfer it to an already existing thread you think to be proper for this topic.
As far as I see it, it doesn't fit neither into the Steam threads nor into the D2D thread.
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The discussion about which and how many new civilizations will become available in "late 2010" (for the D2D-deluxe customers) lead me to the thought that all these DLC's will have to be copyprotected.

Otherwise, we might assume that they would spread like wildfire through the internet.

Since at least 2 new civilizations will be available "for free" for the D2D-deluxe customers (indicating that non-D2D customers will have to pay for it), and Babylon will be available to Steam customers too, we seem to have to deal with two different sources.

The argument that you will have to have an account at either of the current 2 online distributors seems to be invalid, as you could download it from the source you have an account at and then just copy the respective files.

So, the question is, how will that protection be performed?
Will there be a checking functionality in Steam only, will there be an checking functionality in Steam and D2D?
(Checking functionality in this context means: some functionality which checks for DLC on your computer and matches it against your purchasing records with the respective distributor)

Or will the respective files be "locked" against access, in turn meaning that you cannot access the data of the units in terms of graphics data, and maybe even xml and lua-components? But then, they could still be copied, so this doesn't seem very likely.

Is there any experience outside from D2D and/or Steam customers, how these companies deal with such issues?

 

[Tomice]

Not sure about it, but I think Bioware forces you to connect to your online account to use DLC. I'm not sure if you can do something to play offline with DLC, I have a permanent connection and didn't bother (they have my data anyway when I purchase it).

 

[GoGerbilGo!]

I don't play a lot of computer games, so I am unable to contribute anything more to this discussion. But I would like to say that I find the whole new business practice very intriguing because of the legal and technical issues that will have to be solved for the whole process to work smoothly without turning off users. Commander Bello, I do hope that everything will work out smoothly in the end for you, me, and everyone else.

 

[Tylerryan79]

I think if you havent paid for the dlc, but put it in your game directory where ever it goes, the first time you try to play steam will check for it at start up, and make you go online before play. If you dont you cant play, and if you do it will see you havent bought it on your account, and ask for a key or the like, if you cant provide one, you cant play, if you can it will add it to your list or whatever. Then after that you can go in offline mode an not have to check in with steam over the dlc again. For those who have a pirated copy, have fun playing for free I guess. I know for games like Fallout 3 if you bought the game, you can download the dlc, put it in your game, and play it. So beyond steam checking, their will be no further copyprotection.

 

[Jamuka]

Will there be a checking functionality in Steam only, will there be an checking functionality in Steam and D2D?
(Checking functionality in this context means: some functionality which checks for DLC on your computer and matches it against your purchasing records with the respective distributor)

This won't protect against simply putting the DLC into a mod. I don't think it's possible for steam to check for that sort of thing

Or will the respective files be "locked" against access, in turn meaning that you cannot access the data of the units in terms of graphics data, and maybe even xml and lua-components? But then, they could still be copied, so this doesn't seem very likely.

This seems unlikely as you point out. It would only be matter of time before any encrypted data is recreated perfectly.

Is there any experience outside from D2D and/or Steam customers, how these companies deal with such issues?

I don't believe there has ever been a game that is both easily mod-able, and has DLC for things that can be modded.

This leads to only a few possible conclusions:

1) There won't really be DLC, and Firaxis won't try to protect pre-order bonus's.
2) They will use the in-game modding distribution interface they have talked about to restrict mods replicating DLC.
3) People will be able to make mods of DLC, but only people who have paid for the DLC will be able to use it to get on online, in-game, scoreboards.
4) They lied and the game won't be as mod-able as they claim.

Can anyone think of any other method? Of the ones I listed only #1 seems like a good idea.

 

[Jamuka]

Sorry for double post, but has it ever been confirmed that there will be actual DLC? Or just pre-order bonus's?

 

[Dale]

My guess:

Other retailers will just give you a DLC key, which when entered into Steam client unlocks that DLC.

Steam will download ALL DLC to your computer which will be locked, and only unlock the DLC you have a key for. (That's how it works for many games on Steam). Also, this would be the only way to guarantee compatibility in MP.

 

[Commander Bello]

My guess:

Other retailers will just give you a DLC key, which when entered into Steam client unlocks that DLC.

Steam will download ALL DLC to your computer which will be locked, and only unlock the DLC you have a key for. (That's how it works for many games on Steam). Also, this would be the only way to guarantee compatibility in MP.

I fear that this is a probable solution.

Yet, as far as I see it, it implies two things:
1) major updates - because somehow all these DLC's have to be downloaded - congratulations to anyone without fast internet
2) some kind of validity checks run on the computer, each time as far as I see it - which may cause problems with the so-called "offline mode"

Anyway, since all of this at the moment is just an assumption, how are things like this handled for pure D2D-installations?
Anyone?

 

[Dale]

I fear that this is a probable solution.

Yet, as far as I see it, it implies two things:
1) major updates - because somehow all these DLC's have to be downloaded - congratulations to anyone without fast internet
2) some kind of validity checks run on the computer, each time as far as I see it - which may cause problems with the so-called "offline mode"

Anyway, since all of this at the moment is just an assumption, how are things like this handled for pure D2D-installations?
Anyone?

Why would you say it's a "major update"? 30 meg for a single Civ inside a 5 gig game is not a major update. The DLC could be downloaded during patch updates too to ease the pain.

Validity checks wouldn't need to occur all the time, only on purchase or key entry of DLC. The unlocking hashes are stored locally, so the only time it would need to validate online is when you either purchase or enter the key of DLC. Offline mode is still good. It's worked for heaps of games in the past, why do you assume it won't work like that now?

 

[Jamuka]

But that wouldn't really protect the DLC. Someone would make a mod replicating the DLC and it would be distributed easily, through Civ5's in-game mod network, or fansites like this one.

 

[Commander Bello]

Why would you say it's a "major update"? 30 meg for a single Civ inside a 5 gig game is not a major update. The DLC could be downloaded during patch updates too to ease the pain.

I was referring to your assumption of "all DLC" (which I think is very likely) and - that was my assumption then, which I did not make clear - added the amount of other DLC which I assume to be in the pipeline.

And of course I was thinking about the initial installation, meaning
a) Steam update (if really everything is just delivered via Steam and not via D2D for their customers)
b) Civ5 update (which I think will be unavoidable)
c) the above mentioned DLC updates

Validity checks wouldn't need to occur all the time, only on purchase or key entry of DLC. The unlocking hashes are stored locally, so the only time it would need to validate online is when you either purchase or enter the key of DLC. Offline mode is still good. It's worked for heaps of games in the past, why do you assume it won't work like that now?

I think this depends very much on the technical format in which such DLC's will be delivered, won't it?
If DLC would come in some file(s) which could be identified by before and after checks, it could very well be copied and distributed to ones who have not paid for it - a solution, which I would not prefer.

On the other hand, if such DLC would not come in isolated files, then wouldn't we have different game versions?

I am really getting confused over this stuff.

 

[Tomice]

I don't believe there has ever been a game that is both easily mod-able, and has DLC for things that can be modded.

Dragon Age is highly moddable and has DLC Items, Characters and Questlines.

Their mod platform and also the most popular private mod site don't allow illegal stuff, so it's not that easily accesible for John Doe. Those who find access to cracked mods have the knowledge to get a cracked game in the first place. Few will legally buy the game and make it illegal with cracked DLC.

--> A focus on modding doesn't exclude DLC.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

I was referring to your assumption of "all DLC" (which I think is very likely) and - that was my assumption then, which I did not make clear - added the amount of other DLC which I assume to be in the pipeline.

And of course I was thinking about the initial installation, meaning
a) Steam update (if really everything is just delivered via Steam and not via D2D for their customers)
b) Civ5 update (which I think will be unavoidable)
c) the above mentioned DLC updates



I think this depends very much on the technical format in which such DLC's will be delivered, won't it?
If DLC would come in some file(s) which could be identified by before and after checks, it could very well be copied and distributed to ones who have not paid for it - a solution, which I would not prefer.

On the other hand, if such DLC would not come in isolated files, then wouldn't we have different game versions?

I am really getting confused over this stuff.

STEAM locally stores in a file what content you have access to. Its knows what you have bought and what you have downloaded. (relevant, since you can download full games on their free weekend promotions and still have the whole game in your STEAM folder. You cannot however play it.) With STEAMworks and DLC, i do not currently know how that data is stored, but my guess is the same file stores the same information. What does this mean? Let me start with an example. My computer recently died, and me and my brother are sharing a computer now. We both have STEAM accounts. When i log on to STEAM under my account, i have a bunch of games listed as "Installed" in the My Games tab. I cannot launch those games in online or offline mode, i have tried. DLC will likely be handled the same way, just hidden. As Dale and others have said, ALL DLC will likely be DL'd to your computer as parts of patches or even at release, ala Bioshock 2. The file that handles your purchases will know what content to allow you access to. How modding will handle that i have no clue, as i have never modded DLC.

Its possible to hack the file with your content permissions. Obviously, the contents of this file is one of the major things reported to STEAM when you log-on to their servers. Obviously, if they see a hacked file, they have the right per the user agreement to terminate your account.

But that wouldn't really protect the DLC. Someone would make a mod replicating the DLC and it would be distributed easily, through Civ5's in-game mod network, or fansites like this one.

Don't kid yourself. Sites like these will not allow the distribution of copyrighted materials like mod-dlc. The legal ramifications are way to steep, not to mention loss of trust from the game developers even further. Its assanine to assume the in-game mod browser would be any different. They also have the right to ban users for producing such content. You'll have to get your illegals some other way.

 

[Commander Bello]

... me and my brother are sharing a computer now. We both have STEAM accounts. When i log on to STEAM under my account, i have a bunch of games listed as "Installed" in the My Games tab. I cannot launch those games in online or offline mode, i have tried.

I am pretty sure you want to rework that quote, won't you?

 

[Souron]

I suspect that DLCs will simply not be programmicaly copy protected, but the license of the DLC will say that it cannot be redistributed.

 

[Tylerryan79]

He means his brother has games he bought on his account, so when he logs onto his own account they show up in steam, but since they are his brothers games he can't play them.

 

[Commander Bello]

He means his brother has games he bought on his account, so when he logs onto his own account they show up in steam, but since they are his brothers games he can't play them.

I always thought that via Steam you could organize your (own) games?

Your explanation now reads like Steam shows any games on the computer, at least which are related to the user.
That in turn would mean that for a family/shared computer you should also have different windows users?

Ahh.. this is getting more and more a mess

 

[Alsark]

Sorry for double post, but has it ever been confirmed that there will be actual DLC? Or just pre-order bonus's?

Yes, DLC is pretty much confirmed.

The D2D version gives you the first "premium DLC" for free, which is 2 civilizations and a scenario.

Note the word "first".

 

[isndl]

I always thought that via Steam you could organize your (own) games?

Your explanation now reads like Steam shows any games on the computer, at least which are related to the user.
That in turn would mean that for a family/shared computer you should also have different windows users?

Ahh.. this is getting more and more a mess

The Steam Library window displays all games that are installed through Steam (and therefore installed inside the SteamApps folder). If the game was installed through a separate account (in this case, the brother's), Steam will list it as "Installed" instead of "Ready to Play" - if you purchase the game on the spot, you can start playing immediately (because it was in effect preloaded).

Unless you have more than one account in use on your computer, you're probably never going to see it in practice. There are a couple other related topics I can touch on, but that's the gist of what you are confused about.

 

[12agnar0k]

I believe also what they wanted to know is "if you were on a different windows user account, would this happen", I don't know about that, depends if you install Steam in a place that is only accessible by a certain user, such as "my documents". Then you would have 2 seperate Steam App folders.

But otherwise all Games in the SteamApps folder show up in your library along with any game purchases but not downloaded. If you have not brought the game you can't play it, till you buy it.