Wotan has played the save and passed it on, obviously not resigning after all. I'm sure the BABEs will do their best for all our enjoyment, so I suggest we close this whole thread now.
Babes resignation
- Thread starter Whomp
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sirdanilot
BBcode owns in sigs!
Maybe they just played to get the game moving but they want to resign when they get the next save nonetheless.
Please, team Babe, enlighten us with your plan: are you going to resign or not? If not, then I agree this thread should be closed.
I really want to know the definate answer now and if it is 'No', then let's move on with the game and forget about this painful page of the UN history of MTDG 2.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Wow – I'm at a total loss about this. I'm very sad to see this has become so contentious.
@My friends on BABE… surely you'd agree that Chess isn't "broken" because a Rook can't move through pieces while a Knight can? It's not an exploit to block units when it works the same way for everyone. I remember the first time I saw a blocking pawn defense in Chess… I was so mad… and then impressed.
And yes, I know I could still attack the pawns, but my point is that every game has it's bizarre rules. Exploring what tactics you can employ within those rules is a great deal of the fun, I think. Appeals to "reality" miss the point entirely. I was never sure why Knights could pass through things that a Bishop couldn't…
I feel really bad that you don't see it that way.
Hopefully some fun can still be salvaged from this game, with all it's glorious, bizarre, and fascinating rules.
@My friends on BABE… surely you'd agree that Chess isn't "broken" because a Rook can't move through pieces while a Knight can? It's not an exploit to block units when it works the same way for everyone. I remember the first time I saw a blocking pawn defense in Chess… I was so mad… and then impressed.
And yes, I know I could still attack the pawns, but my point is that every game has it's bizarre rules. Exploring what tactics you can employ within those rules is a great deal of the fun, I think. Appeals to "reality" miss the point entirely. I was never sure why Knights could pass through things that a Bishop couldn't…
I feel really bad that you don't see it that way.
Hopefully some fun can still be salvaged from this game, with all it's glorious, bizarre, and fascinating rules.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Seconded. I'll readily accept the flames of anyone who has 2 years to spend on a demogame space race. If relying on exploits and making the most out of the unintended features of the game engine is how you see fun, have a blast.
I was reluctant to call it over - we all were up to some point and discussed it and voted on it beforehand. I don't see it as quits, I see it as where legit, unexploitive players make a stand against jaw dropping, demoralising, fun-killing manoevers.
Silly, it's because the knight has a horse, he just jumps over them. Have you ever seen a bishop jump over a line of peasants? Didn't think so...
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Very well said, General_W.
My opinion echoes yours. Civ3 is ultimately just a game and not intended to perfectly mirror real life. We need to understand these limitations and play within that framework as best as we can, and still enjoy it even when it frustrates us!
I also hope this situation can be resolved amicably because ruining relationships--and reputations--over this is simply not worth it, IMHO.
That said, I'm of the persuasion that the honorable thing for BABE to do would be to continue. I believe that signing up is a commitment to the other teams to play to the best of their competitive ability until either their existence is ended or they win. Yes, it takes time, but that is implied in the commitment everyone knowingly signed up for! This commitment is kept, if for no other reason, than for the enjoyment of the other teams involved.
My opinion echoes yours. Civ3 is ultimately just a game and not intended to perfectly mirror real life. We need to understand these limitations and play within that framework as best as we can, and still enjoy it even when it frustrates us!
I also hope this situation can be resolved amicably because ruining relationships--and reputations--over this is simply not worth it, IMHO.
That said, I'm of the persuasion that the honorable thing for BABE to do would be to continue. I believe that signing up is a commitment to the other teams to play to the best of their competitive ability until either their existence is ended or they win. Yes, it takes time, but that is implied in the commitment everyone knowingly signed up for! This commitment is kept, if for no other reason, than for the enjoyment of the other teams involved.
I'm sorry, but are you the same Beorn-eL-Feared who was a member of Team KISS last game? Perhaps I should have posted this picture:
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Oh.....hi, wazzup? What! Babes quitting the whole game? No way they doin' that. It's just a ploy to get some heat into the game, and a good ploy too. The truth is they have no military at all but 20 galleys full of settlers with nowhere to go 
Seriously, someone on the Babes team could at least stay at the wheel and cause as much diplomatic disarray as possible. I imagine there's a lot of fun things to do besides stubbornly sticking to plan A. If you do give in I suggest you first gift all your cities to Gong as a tribute to Bugsy's White Sox.
Most of all I hope you come over the disappointment, cool off and refocus.
I trust Rik to have created a map that will in no way allow for a peaceful SS win. On the opposite I'm confident any warmongers will have their day before this is over.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
You can verify in the old forums, Chamnix, that I had little part in that game after the middle ages - and none whatsoever in the above. Not that this blockade covered the whole island anyways.
I'd also like to mention in passing that the teams changed, as wholes, which leaves little room for 'previous team' attacks and that I think it really cheap (not to mention most oftenly offensive) to take a Cartman approach to proving a point by attempting to destroy the other guy's credibility.
@Daghy: the diplomatic disarray option was also discussed
I'd also like to mention in passing that the teams changed, as wholes, which leaves little room for 'previous team' attacks and that I think it really cheap (not to mention most oftenly offensive) to take a Cartman approach to proving a point by attempting to destroy the other guy's credibility.
@Daghy: the diplomatic disarray option was also discussed
Guys, I don't care about last game. I'm trying to focus on this game. What do we do?
It seems clear other teams don't want to amend the rules. Okay, but then BABE might/will quit, something that will shift the balance of power in the game. What exactly is there for us to decide, besides trying to get BABE to not give up? What are the options we as admins have? Any chance for an amendment? Etc...
Or, more succinctly, what have we been discussing the past 5 pages?!
It seems clear other teams don't want to amend the rules. Okay, but then BABE might/will quit, something that will shift the balance of power in the game. What exactly is there for us to decide, besides trying to get BABE to not give up? What are the options we as admins have? Any chance for an amendment? Etc...
Or, more succinctly, what have we been discussing the past 5 pages?!
I thought the issue was resolved, and BABE is playing on, no? So just have RM close up this thread and be happy. My point, Beorn, is quite simply that this tactic was used routinely last game, and nobody said a word about it. You may not have been involved, and the teams have definitely changed, but many players on your current team were certainly involved in those " jaw dropping, demoralising, fun-killing manoevers" as you call them, and I suspect they find that description as offensive as I do.
And, no the blockade did not cover the whole island, but do you honestly think that if the appropriate tiles were railroaded, then the units wouldn't have moved whereever a transport was spotted? Forgive my skepicism if I don't believe those units were going to stay stationery as transports sailed around them.
And, no the blockade did not cover the whole island, but do you honestly think that if the appropriate tiles were railroaded, then the units wouldn't have moved whereever a transport was spotted? Forgive my skepicism if I don't believe those units were going to stay stationery as transports sailed around them.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Assume Babe quits.
Can the map be modded to erase Babe's lands completely? (remember Atlantis?)
Guys, I don't care about last game. I'm trying to focus on this game. What do we do?
It seems clear other teams don't want to amend the rules. Okay, but then BABE might/will quit, something that will shift the balance of power in the game. What exactly is there for us to decide, besides trying to get BABE to not give up? What are the options we as admins have? Any chance for an amendment? Etc...
Or, more succinctly, what have we been discussing the past 5 pages?!
I had lots of reservations about signing up again because of the acrimony that took place at certain parts of the last game, but I decided to give this style of game another chance.
Right now, I am finding this game rather unfun albeit for completely different reasons than Babe's. I personally wouldn't care if we abandoned the game at this point because we can't all seem to play nice and just enjoy the game. If the game continues, I will certainly follow through on my commitment, but I can't say I'm dying to keep playing right now.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I believe I have a consistent record here in advocating that BABE not quit.
However, having had some time to reflect over lunch, I've come to 2 realizations…
Even though I think it's a total shame, it would seem that keeping fun firmly in mind, the best thing would be to play on without BABE. I'm sure the remaining 4 teams can think of a way to balance the situation to give everyone a level chance at doing well in the rest of the game.
Having BABE resign (and lose all their units and cities and leaving their land open) still seems like a decent option to me. Without the Great Lighthouse in this game, the remaining four teams all have an equal shot at getting there and colonizing their former land. Consider it an epic Maya like collapse
Without dredging back into who's right or wrong – I'd just like to see the fun continue… and it seems like this may be the best option. If there's a whole team that can't enjoy civ without warfare pre-marines… let's not make everyone suffer for that.
I remain totally open to persuasion either way. It's possible that all the blood is down digesting my sandwich and I'm not thinking clearly
However, having had some time to reflect over lunch, I've come to 2 realizations…
#1 – Independent of whether or not BABE has good reasons, they don't feel like this game is fun anymore.
#2 – Independent of whether or not they're right, pretty much every non-team-BABE member has expressed outrage/disappointment = game is becoming un-fun.
#2 – Independent of whether or not they're right, pretty much every non-team-BABE member has expressed outrage/disappointment = game is becoming un-fun.
Even though I think it's a total shame, it would seem that keeping fun firmly in mind, the best thing would be to play on without BABE. I'm sure the remaining 4 teams can think of a way to balance the situation to give everyone a level chance at doing well in the rest of the game.
Having BABE resign (and lose all their units and cities and leaving their land open) still seems like a decent option to me. Without the Great Lighthouse in this game, the remaining four teams all have an equal shot at getting there and colonizing their former land. Consider it an epic Maya like collapse
Without dredging back into who's right or wrong – I'd just like to see the fun continue… and it seems like this may be the best option. If there's a whole team that can't enjoy civ without warfare pre-marines… let's not make everyone suffer for that.
I remain totally open to persuasion either way. It's possible that all the blood is down digesting my sandwich and I'm not thinking clearly
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
More like the Oklahoma land rush.Consider it an epic Maya like collapse
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
While I still think the honorable thing for BABE to do is to continue, this is also a voluntary game and forcing (not that anyone is) BABE to continue just sounds wrong.
Also, I wonder that if BABE continues to play but their hearts are not really in it, can we really expect them to play their best? I mean that in absolutely no disrespectful way to the BABEs--I'm new(er) to CFC and don't have any history with them--but I know that for myself as a competitive person, if I don't want to play, it's gonna be a struggle to give it my all.
So, if BABEs really do want to continue to play, by all means that's great! But if they don't, let's let them go.
I also like the idea of having a deserted island that everyone can rush to settle. Besides, I think that would create some ferocious pre-marine warfaring.
Also, I wonder that if BABE continues to play but their hearts are not really in it, can we really expect them to play their best? I mean that in absolutely no disrespectful way to the BABEs--I'm new(er) to CFC and don't have any history with them--but I know that for myself as a competitive person, if I don't want to play, it's gonna be a struggle to give it my all.
So, if BABEs really do want to continue to play, by all means that's great! But if they don't, let's let them go.
I also like the idea of having a deserted island that everyone can rush to settle. Besides, I think that would create some ferocious pre-marine warfaring.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Turn over all Babe lands to Harriet.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
No !jb said:
!
Heh. Don't feel too bad because I have no access and had to hear about the verbal onslaught from my dad that everyone was calling us crybabies.jb1964 said:
With that said I'll throw a few things into the ring.
1. Babe will continue on. In what form is really up to each of us and should not be a character assassination of those who decide to resign from the game. Hopefully, we can keep our solid core intact since the confidence in my own skills are hardly up to the level of many on our team. With that said, this was an unexpected tactic (exploit) of the game engine many of us feel should have been considered but hindsight is 20/20.
2. Chamnix putting up a picture of blocking the coast in MTDG I is a non sequitur. This game will require marines (except in very rare cases) instead of bombers which were well within range of MIA's cities.
With that said I'd like to propose a rule that will not allow forts on coastal tiles or we can guarantee this game will end in culture or space. Not a very appealing option to an old (with emphasis on old) (and less on) warhorse.
3. Since this game will undoubtedly move much deeper into the ages than MTDG I I suggest we attempt to move the save with some alacrity. There's nothing that will create a un-fun atmosphere and lack of interest as slow play.
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