I like that idea... as much as "true start location" is nice for immersion, in practice I prefer maps with fairly evenly-spaced civs.
Best map size settings for fun
- Thread starter Civinator
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timerover51
Deity
I guess that I like the very large maps with a limited number of opponents so that I can do a bit of building before running into the enemy.
SebastianP
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2021
- Messages
- 32
Looks like I'm the only one who enjoys to play "tiny" or "small" with many civs crammed together for fun. Sometimes I'm even editing maps to allow for more civs. Fun playing 80x80 with 28 Civs and fighting for every single tile ;-)
Have you tried @Civinator's "trick" of giving the Palace the "Air-Trade" Flag? (You know, by using your own editor? 
) AI turn times are cut dramatically, and you can still have a France larger than 2x3 Tiles, and, accordingly, a decent game on a larger map (I still prefer 256x256; then again, I generally only like R/W maps.)
) AI turn times are cut dramatically, and you can still have a France larger than 2x3 Tiles, and, accordingly, a decent game on a larger map (I still prefer 256x256; then again, I generally only like R/W maps.)
WildWeazel
Carthago Creanda Est
There's also the factor that Soren Johnson notoriously hates long-running games, a position on which I am determined to troll him someday.
I must have missed that one. I know about removing trade network flags from harbors and airports helping a lot, but giving the palace the air-trade flag helps? Directly? Or in conjunction with not giving the Airport the air-trade flag? If directly, that's quite significant.Have you tried @Civinator's "trick" of giving the Palace the "Air-Trade" Flag? (You know, by using your own editor?
Really? I did not know that. I suppose Old World is fairly quick compared to Civ (200 turns vs 500/540). And Offworld is certainly quick.
Now how you would troll Soren with that... I'm curious. Become really good at Offworld and convince him to play a game where you can win, but you intentionally drag it out a really long time? Mod Old World to allow 2000-turn games and then play one?
WildWeazel
Carthago Creanda Est
So far I have 2 ideas. The first probably won't get his attention. The second involves C7 getting major traction in the civ community... 
timerover51
Deity
I have kind of gotten that idea that Flintlock's mod had taken over from C7.So far I have 2 ideas. The first probably won't get his attention. The second involves C7 getting major traction in the civ community...
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
In CCM, (IIRC!) no generic buildings have any of the "Enables trade" functions: all resource-trade goes directly from Palace to Palace.
In addition to the reduction in trade-route calculations, forcing all trade-routes to go via Palaces also goes a long way towards mitigating the early-game problem of a resource-export deal set up by the human player getting broken just because some random Barb-unit pillaged a road or blocked a Coastal tile, or a bankrupt AI sold its only Harbour, thereby ruining the human player's trade-rep for the rest of the game.
Fergei
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2020
- Messages
- 256
Excellent. If only I hadn't just made Palaces obsolete at Mapmaking as part of an overhaul to autoproduce settlers in the very early game. *gnashes teeth*
Interesting... now the challenge is just getting dev attention back on C7. As you know, my attention can focus on various things, currently the Civ3 HOF in the gaming/online space. But I'm returning to that after a five-year hiatus, so it's certainly possible I'll return to C7. The Godot 3.5/Godot 4 split is one of the main de-motivating factors currently, although IRL commitments was what distracted me most recently.So far I have 2 ideas. The first probably won't get his attention. The second involves C7 getting major traction in the civ community...
In player count, definitely. It is super impressive what Flintlock has managed to do.
But there still are those among us who have the skills to contribute to C7 (both due to being open source and due to its technology), but not to Flintlock's mod (beyond playtesting/feedback). I see it as a short/medium term improvement versus long term possibility. Today, definitely, Flintlock's mod is where it's at (unless you are playing GOTM/HOF). In 2030? To be determined.
That does sound familiar. And worthwhile, especially on larger maps. Gotta love the always-blame-the-player trade rep mechanics, too.
Making the Palace go obsolete? Now that's a thought I had never had before. Part of why I love this community, all the ideas. Do you have it auto-producing units (settlers/workers?) as part of baseline early-game production?
Fergei
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2020
- Messages
- 256
When the Palace is obsolete it appears to lose the culture per turn but retain the 'centre of empire' that is essential for corruption. Having learnt about autoproducing of settlers from Civinator and becoming a convert I settled on:
- palace autoproduces settler every 20 turns until Mapmaking (to disable this I had to make the Palace obsolete). I have very slow early teching, so this is usually 5 or so settlements each
- at Mapmaking have a settler equivalent unit (Mass Migrants) that costs 4 pop and a whole lot of shields
- at Invention disable Mass Migrants (a Civ cannot now build new settlements)
- at Navigation introduce settler equivalent unit (Colonists) that costs 6 pop and is pretty much the same shield commitment as a small wonder.
It creates a more even, violent and varied start to the game then sees different Civs prioritising different things a bit more and enables a bit of rubberbanding to help out backwards Civs that are the last to learn Invention (I basically do loads of stuff to reduce the prevelance of a runaway AI). Plus it usually leaves a little bit of land unsettled into the late Medieval era, which I prefer rather than the AI settling every icy reserve of oil magically before 2000 BC . For my personal preferences it is the least worst option... until of course I learnt about this Palace Air trade option.
Anyway, hopefully the Palace can still 'air trade' when obsolete, but I doubt it. Given my obsession with making end of turn quicker on my old computer I will need to try this in my next game.
- palace autoproduces settler every 20 turns until Mapmaking (to disable this I had to make the Palace obsolete). I have very slow early teching, so this is usually 5 or so settlements each
- at Mapmaking have a settler equivalent unit (Mass Migrants) that costs 4 pop and a whole lot of shields
- at Invention disable Mass Migrants (a Civ cannot now build new settlements)
- at Navigation introduce settler equivalent unit (Colonists) that costs 6 pop and is pretty much the same shield commitment as a small wonder.
It creates a more even, violent and varied start to the game then sees different Civs prioritising different things a bit more and enables a bit of rubberbanding to help out backwards Civs that are the last to learn Invention (I basically do loads of stuff to reduce the prevelance of a runaway AI). Plus it usually leaves a little bit of land unsettled into the late Medieval era, which I prefer rather than the AI settling every icy reserve of oil magically before 2000 BC . For my personal preferences it is the least worst option... until of course I learnt about this Palace Air trade option.
Anyway, hopefully the Palace can still 'air trade' when obsolete, but I doubt it. Given my obsession with making end of turn quicker on my old computer I will need to try this in my next game.
Fergei
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2020
- Messages
- 256
In my most recent game I managed to cram 21 Civs onto an standard sized Earth map and it didn't feel cramped because I was picking sensible and well spaced locations. So I think if you are manually selecting suitable starting spots you can squeeze up to 50% more Civs in than when you are playing on a random and unseen map (where my limit is 14 Civs on a standard map with 60% water).
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
Crazy that it's 16 years later now...
These days I prefer leaving much more to chance - random map size, random map specifics, random civs.
Always raging barbarians though.
These days I prefer leaving much more to chance - random map size, random map specifics, random civs.
Always raging barbarians though.
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
But how do you connect resources that are not on the same landmass as your capital?Have you tried @Civinator's "trick" of giving the Palace the "Air-Trade" Flag? (You know, by using your own editor?
Directly. Consider: All roads (and by the time it's pertinent, almost all waterways) lead to Rome. The AI only needs to perform one Trade Link route calculation between Civs. I do leave the Flag set for Airports, just in case there aren't any direct sea routes from any isolated enclaves;for that matter, you can add it to Harbors as well.
Give both the Harbor and Airport the same Flag.
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
But how does that solve anything? Because the game will still calculate all the trade routes each turn?
Or are you saying that air trade routes are easier for the game to calculate than sea trade routes?
Yes. And consider: most trade routes will lead to the Palace, and I also add the Air Trade Flag to Harbors and Airports, to cover 99%+ of all cases.
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Good to know, I just changed my conquests.biq to only have air trade, thank you!Yes. And consider: most trade routes will lead to the Palace, and I also add the Air Trade Flag to Harbors and Airports, to cover 99%+ of all cases.
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