Brits Beat Up Kids

[Yeeek]

The question you should ask yourself is what would happen if one those soldier would have been caught alone by the mass of people there? Do i need to draw a picture. I think not. Like someone else said in the thread, 10 of them they throw stones, 20 of them they shot at you with ak47.

Of course i can't say what they've done is right, this is not the attitude one should have, even more so if you are representing the authorities (I refer to policemen in general, because honestly if what you've seen in this video shock you, there is FAR worse.. and in europe. Riot police caught on tape beating up people).

Also you have to understand what all the guys there are going through on a every basis.. I for one couldn't keep myself cool if i've been thrown at stones and other crap for hours.

Please don't hurt me! Wth you've been throwing crap at me just for the heck of it? I'm gonna feel sorry for who ever i catch doing that to me you know. I believe i would act far worse than those britons.

 

[Speedo]

I stand by my statement. If the US had supported the effort in Vietnam instead of pulling out, do you think the VC would have won militarily? No.

An insurgency doesn't have to win militarily. That's the entire point of it.

We could have staying in vietnam 10, 20 more years... even still be there today, and we would not have won.

You are right when you say that an insurgency is ultimately a battle of wills. You are wrong when you think that it is our will vs theirs. The will required to win must come from the people who live there - the south vietnamese in vietnam, the iraqis in iraq.

 

[Elrohir]

you call people dragging kids away and beating them, 2 adults on every kid, self defense? dose it look like the soldiers were defending themselves against something? i think you mustve been watching some other video, you should see the one were talking about.

so its kids fault they didnt have AKs instead of rocks? i bet next time they will.

If they were responding to attacks upon them by these thugs, then yes, I think it was. If they just grabbed random people and started beating them, without knowing if they were guilty, then that would be wrong, but I dont' see any evidence that that is the case.

Of course I don't want them to attack British soldiers with AK's. But the cynical side of me says that if you're going to do something wrong, do it right and leave no witnesses.

how would you feel if the kids being beaten were english/american and the soldiers were iraqis. i know how you would feel, youd be outraged. but since they are iraqis, you arent. thats called "racism".

you can lie to yourself but you cant lie to me, thats what that is.

If you think you're going to trap me or something with that question, nice try, you fail.

If they were throwing rocks and grenades at Iraq troops, I wouldn't particularly mind. Thugs are thugs, no matter what race or religion they are.

Ah, so you know me better than I do. Good to know. But at least you're humble about your amazing mind-reading powers.

 

[Bugfatty300]

The stupid thing is that the soldiers video taped the whole thing. The commentary may or may not be real. Maybe the soldier wanted to tape it and report the soldiers for brutality but somehow I doubt it since if that where the case, then the British would have a tape that didn't have the "fake" voice over.

It is a British soldier doing the filming and I think this tape was made for the personal amusement of the soldiers, such as the Abu Ghraib photos and that they had no intention of this being seen by their superiors and the press.

So that's why I doubt the voice over is fake. Its likely very real.

 

[CaptainF]

Thugs are thugs, no matter what race or religion they are.

Yes, and these men were behaving as thugs.

This is not the sort of conduct that one would expect out of a professional military force.

From what I could see, the threat was neutralized, they were hauled away. Sure, detain them why doncha, but whats the point in whupping their asses for the hell of it?
Aside from the fact that this was a rather thuggish thing to do, it will only fuel the hatred towards coalition forces. "Shock and Awe" my ass.

We must always expect more out of our own soldiers than of the enemy.

 

[MobBoss]

The stupid thing is that the soldiers video taped the whole thing. The commentary may or may not be real. Maybe the soldier wanted to tape it and report the soldiers for brutality but somehow I doubt it since if that where the case, then the British would have a tape that didn't have the "fake" voice over.

It is a British soldier doing the filming and I think this tape was made for the personal amusement of the soldiers, such as the Abu Ghraib photos and that they had no intention of this being seen by their superiors and the press.

So that's why I doubt the voice over is fake. Its likely very real.

Now this I can agree with. When the soldiers were deployed from the Brigade I supported, the JAG told the troops "dont photo or film anything that you wouldnt want to see on CNN or show your Mom".

Seemed to work for us. We didnt have any incidents like this.

 

[MobBoss]

We must always expect more out of our own soldiers than of the enemy.

Now, as a military man, I want to know exactly why we should expect more from our troops than that of the enemy?

I mean, I truly sympathize with soldiers stuck in situations like this.

Consider the Battle of the Bulge. When it got out that the Nazi's were executing POWs at Malmedy, what do you expect the American troops to do? What is the normal human response?

Its one thing and comment on morality half a world away....its totally another to be in the suck and live it day by day.

 

[Sidhe]

So what your saying is all's fair in Love and war and we should not expect our soldiers to behave better than there enemy? Well OK but I think they wrote the Geneva convention specifically for that purpose, we claim to follow it, I think beating the living crap out of hostages is frowned on under that convention?

Maybe we should abandon it, it's obviously outmoded with current thinking in military circles : please, If police men harsses a group of youths and goes ape on them he gets punished. If a soldier acts against the regualtions of his army then he gets punished, end of story.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I'd love to take some of you guys on a foot patrol sometime, really. I'd love to see your reaction when someone tosses rocks or explosives at you. It's real eazy to pass judgement when your not nor have you ever been in combat. Did these guys need to beat the piss out of these ******s? who knows... and yes, anyone throwing rocks and explosives at armed men regardless of the reasons is a ******.

Could they have opened up and 86'ed them the minute the altercation began?

Under the ROE I was working under in most cases yes, they could have. Would that have been more humane? The paradox of war right there.

 

[Jawz II]

If they were responding to attacks upon them by these thugs, then yes, I think it was. If they just grabbed random people and started beating them, without knowing if they were guilty, then that would be wrong, but I dont' see any evidence that that is the case.

Of course I don't want them to attack British soldiers with AK's. But the cynical side of me says that if you're going to do something wrong, do it right and leave no witnesses.


If you think you're going to trap me or something with that question, nice try, you fail.

If they were throwing rocks and grenades at Iraq troops, I wouldn't particularly mind. Thugs are thugs, no matter what race or religion they are.

Ah, so you know me better than I do. Good to know. But at least you're humble about your amazing mind-reading powers.

obviously you dont know the diffrence between "self-defense" and "revenge".



trap you with what? trust me i dont want to trap you. i hardly even wanna talk to you.(then why am i?, i know, i know...)

i dont know you. i dont want to know you.

you said you had lost all sympathy for them because of etc, i havent seen you express any sympathy for anyone who isnt 1.christian, 2.american, 3.white in any of your posts up to date, regardless the subject.

youre welcome to prove me wrong.

 

[Jawz II]

The question you should ask yourself is what would happen if one those soldier would have been caught alone by the mass of people there? Do i need to draw a picture. I think not. Like someone else said in the thread, 10 of them they throw stones, 20 of them they shot at you with ak47.

wrong.

Of course i can't say what they've done is right, this is not the attitude one should have, even more so if you are representing the authorities (I refer to policemen in general, because honestly if what you've seen in this video shock you, there is FAR worse.. and in europe. Riot police caught on tape beating up people).

of course you cant, cause what they did is wrong. i got a feeling you want to say it anyway. your problem.

i bet there has been cases of police beating people to death all over the world. so what?

Also you have to understand what all the guys there are going through on a every basis.. I for one couldn't keep myself cool if i've been thrown at stones and other crap for hours.

Please don't hurt me! Wth you've been throwing crap at me just for the heck of it? I'm gonna feel sorry for who ever i catch doing that to me you know. I believe i would act far worse than those britons.

if you cant control yourself under fire, you have no bussines being a soldier.

if rocks make you lose it, you should look into another career. accounting perhaps?

 

[Bronx Warlord]

if rocks make you lose it, you should look into another career. accounting perhaps?

I agree with you for once, yet there was a homemade frag tossed. That is a serious escalation of the engagement. Rocks will bruse ya for sure, a frag will rip you up real good and if close enough your parents/wife/family win the SGLI sweepstakes.

 

[Jawz II]

yeah but if i recall correctly that was before they ran out.

if they had caught the thrower and beat him right there, i wouldnt mind.

if they caught a shooter and beat him, i wouldnt mind, cause thats what id do.

seems to me they grabbed 4 of the slowest, closest ones.

 

[h4ppy]

Well then it can serve as a lesson to the whole group. I really have no problem with this, its not like they did any lasting damage, and they were provoked.

 

[Jawz II]

you have no problem with this?
im jacks complete lack of surprise.

and how do you know about the kind of damage they were inflicted?

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Honestly Jawz who knows at this point. I think both sides have to take a bit of the blame here, but like I said I was not there so I'm not going to pass judgement, just give an opinion.

 

[h4ppy]

im jacks complete lack of surprise.

English please.

 

[Kyriakos]

you have no problem with this?
im jacks complete lack of surprise.

That was very good

Now imagine the video commentator saying something like: "I am Jack's Iraqi kid beating hand" (in the case he wasnt obviously brain-dead and purely educated)

Really, i agree that the soldiers were not in self-defense, and they should be kicked out of the army. But it probably wont happen. Definately this will make the insurgency more powerful, and anyway any logical person by now should understand that the Iraqi's will never see the occupational forces as helping them.

 

[ellie]

The question you should ask yourself is what would happen if one those soldier would have been caught alone by the mass of people there? Do i need to draw a picture. I think not. Like someone else said in the thread, 10 of them they throw stones, 20 of them they shot at you with ak47.

Of course i can't say what they've done is right, this is not the attitude one should have, even more so if you are representing the authorities (I refer to policemen in general, because honestly if what you've seen in this video shock you, there is FAR worse.. and in europe. Riot police caught on tape beating up people).

Also you have to understand what all the guys there are going through on a every basis.. I for one couldn't keep myself cool if i've been thrown at stones and other crap for hours.

Please don't hurt me! Wth you've been throwing crap at me just for the heck of it? I'm gonna feel sorry for who ever i catch doing that to me you know. I believe i would act far worse than those britons.

I havent been in iraq, but a family friend has.

The image the MOD puts out is a friendly place compared to bagdhad.

Thats not the case, his regiment was attacked daily everything from gunfire, to mortars to stones.

The video IS shocking, and retaliating to months of attacks is most definitely wrong.

But, im not surprised that some 'cracked' especially with the
government sending regiments out for repeated tours
due to the increasingly tiny army.


The truth is british troops already operate under absurd ROE, are guaranteed to have to fight (unlike most western nations armies) and its no surprise that the Army is struggling to get people daft enough to sign up for a crap paid dangerous job where if any of your colleagues do anything wrong you all get painted with the same brush, no matter the dedication you have shown.


Join the Army: Get shot at.

 

[Bugfatty300]

The narration is fake

Why do you think its fake? One of their comrades was doing the filming after all.

Its not hard to see how people can get a kick out of watching stupid teens getting the crap beat out of them.