[BTS] Write-up for OCC Deity, Clash of War/Peace Mongers

[ScorpionK]

AHHH, Sorry guy, I am wrong. I just try it in my recent game after I got all the cheap tech.

The tech steal option will be available when the spy station 5 turns even if the option doesn't change to blue color in Espionage Screen. So as long as I have 1277 EP in Mana, I will be able to steal it no matter what. Terrible mistake. So sorry.

So please scratch the trick, it is useless now. Oh, me and my big assumption.

Thank you Doshin for correcting me and sorry again to mistake your game in another thread.

I will edit my mistake.

Eh, luckily that doesn't change how powerful EE is. So anyone interested in EE should not be discouraged because my stupid assumption. I rely on the color in EP screen. Because it is not green so I never thought it will be available on the field.

 

[ScorpionK]

I forgot to write in last post. There is a shift point from EE to normal research. When you get the feel that you have enough EP to steal coming from your settled Gspy, then it is time to shift.

In this game, I make the shift too late, so I didn't have GS to build academy. If I play the game again, I will make the shift when I have about 3 settled Gspy, running caste full of science to get a GS, try my best to build Great library.

Because of my mistakes, I nearly lose th lib race when Peter also research Lib at the same turn. I got to use the good old trick, give him Gunpowder and ask him change civ, so he got delayed 2 turn, enough for me to win Lib.

PA also a factor you should consider when to shift, if you intend to make PA with a warmonger AIs, then you should make the shift sooner because his research is normally not so good. But if allied with a tech AIs, like darius in this game, you can make the shift later and still be fine.

Map size is also something you should consider. I play with small map ( the biggest size that my poor laptop can handle). If you think you can conquest everyone with cannon, then make the shift sooner than artillery conquest.

 

[ScorpionK]

For the past 20 turn, I put everything into communism while darius devote himself on Steel, it is nice that we both finish on the same turn. Please take a look at my city when it is devoted to reseach:



As you can see, I went a bit overboard with Gspy, and now I got 8 of them (1 to built SY) and no GS at all, I don't have academy atm, which is really bad. That's why I said it's better to shift gear sooner.
Anyway, in 765 AD, we vow to share everything together with Darius of Egypt by signing our PA.



After PA, I focus research to levee. And my city start build cannon, with citadel of spain and theo, CR3 cannon right off the bat. They are super strong, as we all know.
Our army atm: 4 cats, 3 longbows, 1 spear, 2 archers. All of them are the leftover from Mana war, and I build some to get HR happiness, but after GT is build, they just stand there, waiting for their upgrade.

My aim is to build 3 more cannon and some maces, with 1 conquistador healer. My first target is Peter, who is my neighbor and a possible civs will research steel soon.

But still, even if I am the tech leader, and thanks to EE I got line of sight to every city in the world, the SOD of Monty, Peter, SB still very big to take on head-to-head. So I did what I did 500 years ago, bride them to war. I bride Monty and Peter to DoW on SB. Pretty soon, they burn their SOD while I got my nice stack next to Peter city.

In 790 AD: I DoW Peter and raze his city in 1 turn (my spy already got in there and cause city revolt) while my stack is healing, Darius take another city from Peter. Peter willing to cap as soon as he agree to talk. Quite a short war.

In 860 AD: Time to pay Mana back for his sudden war. I DoW on Mana and again, raze his city in 1 turn with the help of my spy. Mana is capped the turn after.

Now is the time for a choice, Monty or SB. I decided to goes with Monty because SB got 4 colonies atm, and the guy with that much colonies will take a long time to cap. So, Monty, here we come, time to pay for your sins.

In 940 AD: I DoW on Monty, of course this guy is a tough nut to cap. I have to raze 3 cities of his while Darius and Peter take 1 city for each of them. But nonetheless, Monty is capped in 1050 AD.

My stack didn't have time to heal and it's become a decent army now with: 15 cannon, 8 mace, 5 longbow, 1 spike and 1 conquistador healer. We march to SB biggest, toughest city with his SOD inside. I love massacre when they sit nicely in their city.

In 1065 AD: we DoW on SB and his 4 colonies. Three turn later, Washington is razed (of course, spy revolt again). SB is capped right the turn after.

Now I worry about his 4 colonies, cause I don't like to transport my whole army to some tiny island. But lucky me, they willing to cap right after their master is caped, all 4 of them.

The PA win conquest in 1095 AD.



Here is a monster production city with IW, HE and levee. I see that IW is really overkill in this game but u know, things might not goes as I planned, so in case the war got longer, I need every hammer I could get. This city will 1 turn cannon and 1,5 turn artillery. Enough to match any Deity civs, even if they are Monty with 15 cities.



Thank you for reading and my next post will be the summarize about OCC and EE. Hope you find this writeup some use.

 

[soundjata]

Ah a fellow Vietnamese on the forums

Impressive game! 1090 Deity victory

 

[Doshin]

Excellent victory and an interesting thread.

Have you ever played an Always War game? The setting isn't for everyone, I realize, but there you really get to learn the true power of espionage.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ah a fellow Vietnamese on the forums

Impressive game! 1090 Deity victory

Oo that changes my paradigm about you.

 

[ScorpionK]

Ah a fellow Vietnamese on the forums

Impressive game! 1090 Deity victory

Ah, I see that my name gave me away. Actually that is my gf's name. But, yes, it is really nice to see another vn here. I thought this game is not popular in our country.

Excellent victory and an interesting thread.

Have you ever played an Always War game? The setting isn't for everyone, I realize, but there you really get to learn the true power of espionage.

Thank you. Could you tell me more about Always War game? Does that mean all the AIs will DoW on each other?

It is indeed an interesting idea as now I am kind of run out challenge. It seems like I am a nature warmonger. But I hate marathon cause I can not 2 pop whip axe like other speed.

I really don't dare to take on high point challenge. The best I can do on small map is 1,6 million while WastinTime got 3,2 million. I got beat, hard.

Oo that changes my paradigm about you.

Huh, and may I ask what is your paradigm? (I have to wiki the word to understand what it is)

 

[Doshin]

Always War is a setting you can select from the Custom Game start menu. The difficulty lies in the fact that whereas you declare war against every single AI as soon as you meet, the AI do not automatically DoW with one another. So, on a normal sized Pangaea map, you would soon find yourself at war with 6 AIs.

It is difficult, and (on Immortal+) requires quite a lot of tricks. But espionage here is vital. You are at war with everybody all the time, which makes tech trading rather difficult...

 

[ScorpionK]

Always War is a setting you can select from the Custom Game start menu. The difficulty lies in the fact that whereas you declare war against every single AI as soon as you meet, the AI do not automatically DoW with one another. So, on a normal sized Pangaea map, you would soon find yourself at war with 6 AIs.

It is difficult, and (on Immortal+) requires quite a lot of tricks. But espionage here is vital. You are at war with everybody all the time, which makes tech trading rather difficult...

Ack, don't you think the word "difficult" for tech trade is quite understatement? How about "mission impossible"? Not to mention that we will not get any trade route, so now we really require a HOF start.

I don't mind being at war with 6 AIs, as some maps like the hub will create a nice block but AW will make things out of ordinary like religion spread. We now have to depend on luck to get it spread.

You think is there any other difficulty about AW? I often make a quite detail plan before actual play. AW also mean spiritual trait is useless. So, which leader should I choose?

But it is a nice challenge, help me more with my plan, will you?

 

[Tall German Joe]

awesome game! extremely impressive!

 

[ScorpionK]

awesome game! extremely impressive!

Thanks, your compliment makes me blushed

Would you like an Always War OCC game, Tall German Joe? What leader you think I should choose?

AW means maybe I have to cooked a map. Sigh......

 

[Doshin]

Ack, don't you think the word "difficult" for tech trade is quite understatement? How about "mission impossible"? Not to mention that we will not get any trade route, so now we really require a HOF start.

I don't mind being at war with 6 AIs, as some maps like the hub will create a nice block but AW will make things out of ordinary like religion spread. We now have to depend on luck to get it spread.

You think is there any other difficulty about AW? I often make a quite detail plan before actual play. AW also mean spiritual trait is useless. So, which leader should I choose?

But it is a nice challenge, help me more with my plan, will you?

Financial plus Protective or Charismatic is best. Industrious can also work in lieu of Financial.

It's an old thread now, but take a look at...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=483961

There are tips in the first post, and a winnable start. Continents are easier in AW than Pangaea.

If you do play on a single landmass, then it's imperative to set up choke points and choke cities. You'll soon learn to love Super Defender Longbows.

EDIT: one of the chief difficulties is transitioning from 'surviving' ---> 'winning,' which is largely a matter of . Classical era techs are cheap enough to self-tech on your own, but it becomes very difficult to keep up during the Medieval period. You can hold out against Rifles with Longbows for a while, but they soon break your best defenders and then everything comes crashing down.

 

[Manco Capac]

Also, ScorpioK, it is defintely a good game.

Paradigm is a view that founds the basis of a theory in the original definition.
My basic view of soundjata was he was white (mah strong lack of imagination lol). Now I know he's asian, my paradigm of asians forcefully make me swallow his intelligence is x3 stronger.

 

[Tall German Joe]

Thanks, your compliment makes me blushed

Would you like an Always War OCC game, Tall German Joe? What leader you think I should choose?

AW means maybe I have to cooked a map. Sigh......

yeah. lets see what you can do with Hannibal !!!

 

[soundjata]

@Drama-about-me

I'm not Vietnamese

But I live in VN

Hence I appreciated discovering the country of origin of ScorpionK, because like he said, it's quite unexpected.

@ ScorpionK, hope you'll keep up with the nice write-ups!

 

[Manco Capac]

Too late. You're vietnamese now. jk

 

[soundjata]

I don't mind lol. I spent the last 10 years in Asia so I'm not sure about my nationality anymore...

I'm glad you're changing your avatar soon for something a little less scary

 

[VSarius]

Financial/Philo would probably be the strongest for a No Tech Trading OCC, the issue I'm really struggling to wrap my head around is keeping up with Immortal AIs utilizing just that few tiles. Usually it's pretty easy to reach parity with just a bulb+beeline, ruling that out...Mids seem like a necessity, combined with a relatively early conquest win. I'm still unsure whether Financial is worthwhile.

Actually...founding Confu at CoL and then capturing a city nearby, spreading the religion, and then allowing the enemy to take it back may be worthwhile for keeping up in tech via Espionage.

 

[ScorpionK]

Financial plus Protective or Charismatic is best. Industrious can also work in lieu of Financial.

It's an old thread now, but take a look at...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=483961

There are tips in the first post, and a winnable start. Continents are easier in AW than Pangaea.

If you do play on a single landmass, then it's imperative to set up choke points and choke cities. You'll soon learn to love Super Defender Longbows.

EDIT: one of the chief difficulties is transitioning from 'surviving' ---> 'winning,' which is largely a matter of . Classical era techs are cheap enough to self-tech on your own, but it becomes very difficult to keep up during the Medieval period. You can hold out against Rifles with Longbows for a while, but they soon break your best defenders and then everything comes crashing down.

Thanks for the link, it is a really good game. And I see one thing u said: religion doesn't spread automatically in AW. So, there goes the holy religion bonus, ouch.

yeah. lets see what you can do with Hannibal !!!

You really wanna see me get crush, don't you Joe?

@Drama-about-me

I'm not Vietnamese

But I live in VN

Hence I appreciated discovering the country of origin of ScorpionK, because like he said, it's quite unexpected.

@ ScorpionK, hope you'll keep up with the nice write-ups!

Oh, and I thought you are vnese for sure. You are also a fan of Bruce Lee, right?

Financial/Philo would probably be the strongest for a No Tech Trading OCC, the issue I'm really struggling to wrap my head around is keeping up with Immortal AIs utilizing just that few tiles. Usually it's pretty easy to reach parity with just a bulb+beeline, ruling that out...Mids seem like a necessity, combined with a relatively early conquest win. I'm still unsure whether Financial is worthwhile.

Actually...founding Confu at CoL and then capturing a city nearby, spreading the religion, and then allowing the enemy to take it back may be worthwhile for keeping up in tech via Espionage.

Eh, in OCC, when you capture a city, it is auto razed. So I really question my EE strategy with getting a holy religion as I can not see any benefit in that.

In OCC, Financial is wasted because the best it could bring you is about 10 commerce, not much for a trait.

That's true Mids becomes important now because I need to self research some key tech instead of stealing. Maybe an hybrid form of EE

I now think the best leader will be Lincoln who Char and Philo, with empire of Rome. Char is for war and early happy, Philo is a no brainer, Rome have Fishing so no worker tech at beginning, Mining will help get bronze fast for early defense, UB is a bit boost to GPP, while with Praets I may aim to cripple 1 or 2 civs.

Oh boy, now it is fun

 

[VSarius]

D'oh I'm ******ed, completely forgot about the auto-raze somehow.
Yeah I agree that Financial is largely wasted, the trait is usually veeery strong for No TT/Always War but for an OCC it's very underwhelming, Farms are almost always a better tile improvement. I actually disagree in crippling civs early on, considering you can't fill the void with your own cities, all you really do is strengthen the remaining civs if they take that land. I think it would be more worthwhile to just beeline Rifling/Military Tradition and try to take out the world in a string of wars off that. CHA or EXP seem to be the best options for a second trait to complement PHI, Peter or Lincoln. +2 happy and faster promos or a faster growth curve...

Start wise, I think a resourceless UU to choke would be superior to Praets. Choke your neighbors instead of killing them off so they never become an issue, maybe a Chariot UU? WCs, Immortals, Dogs, Holkans, Skirmishers. Of those civs, I kind of like Native America, but I think Maya may be the best. Solid Happy boost from the Ball Court, early resourceless UU, if we're talking a cooked start..grassland mine gems with corn are what we are looking for, Mining/Myst isn't ideal but I feel it could work fine.