[BTS] Write-up for OCC Deity, Clash of War/Peace Mongers

[ScorpionK]

I am really confused about choking as I can see Monty could send a 10+ units quite soon while at the beginning I really need to balance building unit and wonder. Ofc I will use all warmonger AIs.

Your suggestion is really nice, makes me wanna try it.

But what do you think I cripple AIs by raze 2-4 cities in his deep territory, his capital and maybe 3 more cities while let him keep his border cities. So he will be crippled and other AIs have no way to resettled the land. Ofc, pillaging to hell.

Here is what I though about Praets, on forested hill with fortify bonus, praeat will become 16 str without any promotions, while longbow is 13,5 with 1 first strike. So even I somehow can not use praets in offense, they surely can defense very well.

Pike is 18 against mounted but more expensive.
Elephants is 12 only against mounted
Crossbow is 15 against melee with 1st strke but ofc more expensive.

So we can see that combine longbows with drill and praets with woodsman can hold up against all kind of mix.

Am I somewhere wrong with my thinking?

 

[VSarius]

The thing is defense wise, you can position Guerilla 1/2 Longbows on Hills and they are impossible to remove. Seriously, they become like titanic lightning rods that will eat up most stacks the AI sends, a team of 3 LBs with 1 promoted to Medic keeps your territory pretty safe, even against siege. Praets real strength is all in city attack and snowballing into a lead from such a powerful early conquering UU. Pretty similar to the Quecha in that sense, but the Quecha is more flexible in that not only can it strike sooner, it can also choke. Choking needs to be done early to prevent the AI from gaining access to Metals or Horses, so the most they can build is..Archers? Archers are simply not that terrifying, against the Deity AI it has to be done a bit more careful since they just have such ridiculous unit production.

Strictly speaking it's a great return on the investment, crippling an AI with 2-3 units instead of trying to weaken him later with a stack. Razing several core cities is interesting, but I feel it would need mounted units to really be effective, trudging along with 1-movers through his whole border territory just doesn't sound smart.

 

[ScorpionK]

That is an very interesting as I never do choking. I now can see myself making a plan to do so with a strong HOF start, not a unrealistic cooked map.

Now we can cripple AIs by choking instead of war. It might even helps me oracle CS.

So now we need a super HOF start. I am thinking about using start in awesome start collections of Seraiel.

Thanks so much, got anymore for me

 

[VSarius]

Mmm, I'd say just an "average" HOF start will work, 2 gems+2 strong food resources (Pigs, Irrigated Corn, Irrigated Wheat) should work. Although more is better of course. AI wise, we have to take into account the +diplo they gain from Mutual Military Struggle, choosing AIs that do not trade much tech I think will be quite beneficial, just to slow down the AI somewhat and just generally bad techers. Probably want AIs with low-ish unitprob as well. Ragnar would be an absolute nightmare.

 

[obsolete]

The problem with Permanent Alliances (and why it was removed from default), is that it breaks the game. While deity may seem impressive to some, any noble player could also win a deity OCC with the PA deal.

 

[soundjata]

The man is back

 

[ScorpionK]

Ah man, you got something against PA?

So, if I told you EE is breaking the game, will you not use it? I told you before, and I tell you now, PA is only a means to help me win faster, not help me to win.

Here is my reason: without PA, I could bride Monty and Peter on Darius, while he busy with 2 end, I could raze his core cities, his capital is really near me. I got perfect line of sight and city investigate so I'm sure I can see the sweet moment to join war.

After cripple Darius, I will be the only civs with cannon and enough production to build them fast, even without levee and IW, I could build cannon in 2-3 turns, fast enough to keep up with a long war. War weariness is not an issue cause I got GT.

Without PA, my war aim will be cripple AI down to its border cities so other AIs will not re-settle the land, then finish them off all at once. Sound simple? I am a natural warmonger so I'm sure it could be done. Thanks to EE, I don't need to worry about research, no need to improve my land with commerce improvement, only workshop. I don't mean to bulldoze my town, as I only have 4 of them.

As I have some respect to Deity player, I really appreciate if you could give your ideas to help others to improve, I failed to see how helpful your post is.

P.S: I don't consider myself a Deity player, yet. Cause I still have to use top tier leaders.

 

[Tall German Joe]

The problem with Permanent Alliances (and why it was removed from default), is that it breaks the game. While deity may seem impressive to some, any noble player could also win a deity OCC with the PA deal.

uh, except for the part of actually getting the PA offered, 200-250 turns into the game?

 

[Snaaty]

to make an almost invincible choke unit, you need fs 4 (first strike). else your unit will take damage somewhen, then more damage, then dies. prot-char seems best to get there.

fs negates that because you basically kill the enemy before they can touch you, IF you have enough base strength compared to theirs, so fs->guerilla->strenght are the ideal upgrades you want to have.

if you have said super defender, all you need is to back it with a super healer and they will hold most hills/forests (or best, foresthills) forever these 2 alone (woody3 heal1 will do, so no gg needed for the healer)

...

dont think you can win occ aw on any level higher then emperor, but would be happy to see you try and win actually

 

[paulcarri]

wow, have really enjoyed reading this, thanks for sharing!

 

[Si_Lurker]

This would be interesting as a space race. Perhaps if you can trigger some massive intra AI war that would protract long enough to slow their tech.

I tried playing and in my game Darius launches on turn 719 1648 AD.

I managed to do well as I was friendly with all neighbours: Peter, Mansa and Darius. I didn't do any of the permanent alliance nonsense.

The problem is that everyone except Darius, Mansa sucked in tech, Peter had parity. I managed to complete only 2 thrusters by that time. Also Darius conquered everyone except Mansa and was nearing domination, so he was unstoppable.

I didn't use spies or steal any technology. Just self researched and traded.

 

[ScorpionK]

In this game, if you don't like PA, why don't you bride everyone against Darius, and finish the job when all their SOD die. Take out the tech leader and you will be only one with cannon. Doing so and you don't need to space race. I never find the idea of space race interesting, maybe cause I am more a warmonger than builder.

I think that will be pretty easy to do, as I have very strong EE which give me sight of line to all the cities. I may try to replay this game as no PA, but at the moment, my head is full of that OCC Always war. How about come to that thread and tried it yourself, I mean OCC AW?

It is my first time trying AW game so it feel like total another game. Try it, would you? I would love to have more ideas as I am no kind of stuck on what to do next. It always fun to have more OCC fans.

 

[Si_Lurker]

Where is OCC AW thread?

 

[ScorpionK]

It is the new thread: OCC Deity, Always war, HOF start, join for fun.

Snaaty show me the wonder economy and I think it is really good to go. But I'm stuck as I am now, well, I could replay but still wanna to try if there is another way.