Bug reports and technical issues

[J. pride]

I recall reading somewhere back in one of these other threads that the Mongols were taking too long to conquer China.
The China (Jin/Song/Xi Xia) theater was the Mongols' most difficult campaign to wage by far, compared to everything else.
It took two generations to do it and was by no means, quick.

The way I see it (for the AI), the Mongol invasions should stimulate/accelerate Chinese collapse,
then pick off parts/all of it as it falls into a collection of Independents.
That way, it helps India too (or at least human India), so that it may be a little bit easier to achieve the third UHV goal with China out of the picture.

I pointed out the slow Mongolian conquest of China earlier but to no avail. Currently there are three problems with China:
1) The Tech rate is extremely fast; I knew from the start that this was a bad idea; what was wrong with how things were before?
2) The Mongolian conquest of China is extremely slow.
3) China does not respawn after the Mongolian conquests which leads to wierd looking map with Khmer controlling southern China, Korea northern and Japanese controlling some cities on the coast.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

1) I don't think that China's new tech rate is a bad thing in this and I'd like to say why I think so:
a) After 1500s or so, they usually slow down a lot after the Euro civs start climbing up the tech ladder. This is true both for the AI & the player.
b) It gives slower teching civs in the vicinity a good tech sugar daddy to steal from instead of having to shuttle spies constantly to Europe.
I will agree with you though that it's much more problematic to early civs like Babylon.
EDIT: What was wrong with it before was that China didn't really have the technological progress it had like IRL (Four Great Inventions, early bureaucracy, astronomy/astrology, ocean-faring vessels capable of transporting armies, etc.) before. We don't have separate tech trees for civilizations that don't develop along European lines so you either get a weak, un-innovative China or a overtly powerful one. Like I said though, post-Renaissance techs get very slow and that period is difficult to stay stable in. By the Industrial Age/onwards, that 25% undiscovered tech bonus doesn't really mean anything.

2) I don't see anything wrong with a slower Mongol conquest of China. It is realistic.
However, maybe 5-10 more Keshiks given to them on spawn might do the trick if it proves to be more challenging for the player.
3) That's a whole other problem considering it's not just them, but the Persians, Romans & anyone else who has a rebirth mechanic that get shafted. We just have to wait for Leoreth to fix that mechanic.

 

[Leoreth]

Please keep balancing discussions to the main thread please (or suggestions if you have an idea on how to change that). Just a short note on the Chinese, I'm a little confused by the fact that the complaints are a little vague. Could you please take a screenshot of the tech section of the diplomacy advisor at certain dates so I can see what's going on?

 

[Caesar Augustus]

I'm not sure to what extent this is a bug or not, but I'm noticing that it's pretty common for tiles to be owned by someone who doesn't have the highest culture %. It's been working both for and against me. For example, I've noticed with Korea that I hold the forest north of the pig despite China having more culture there. On the other hand, as Phoenicia Babylon has the Wheat to my NE despite my having a higher %. Do we know why this happens? It's especially frustrating having basically no tiles as Phoenicia when based on culture I should have at least a few...

 

[civ_king]

I'm not sure to what extent this is a bug or not, but I'm noticing that it's pretty common for tiles to be owned by someone who doesn't have the highest culture %. It's been working both for and against me. For example, I've noticed with Korea that I hold the forest north of the pig despite China having more culture there. On the other hand, as Phoenicia Babylon has the Wheat to my NE despite my having a higher %. Do we know why this happens? It's especially frustrating having basically no tiles as Phoenicia when based on culture I should have at least a few...

If it is your core area for the purposes of whether you control you get a 2.5x multiplier (so if you have 20% you still control it)

 

[Caesar Augustus]

If it is your core area for the purposes of whether you control you get a 2.5x multiplier (so if you have 20% you still control it)

I guess that explains why I control the forest as Korea, but it now makes even less sense why Phoenicia doesn't control the Wheat, since it's Core for Phoenicia but only Contested for Babylon.

Edit: It looks like Babylon is getting the Core bonus and I'm not, considering it just flipped to them when they got to 19% compared to my 75%.

 

[civ_king]

The former mountain tiles on Cuba, Sri Lanka, and Taiwan are considered foreign for everyone, you might consider making them historically appropriate tiles


Cuba: Spain and US
Ceylon: Portuguese, Dutch and British
Taiwan: Dutch, Chinese and Japanese (Spain had a base there for 16 years, but that's really short)

Also add a spice to Ceylon

 

[Gem Hound]

Did anyone notice the bugged immortals or is it just me? Posting a screen shot below.

Spoiler :

By rock119 at 2011-09-25

I looked into it and their civilopedia is empty and everything... >_<

Spoiler :

By rock119 at 2011-09-25

Newest version just got it yesterday. (First game on this version)

 

[J. pride]

While were are talking about Persia, there is also a bug which makes the Persian AI settle cities extremely close. You remember Leoreth, when a few days ago somebody posted a pic of the Indian AI owning 2 cities one tile away in Central Asia; i have a feeling that they were founded by Persia. You should definitely look into it.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

While were are talking about Persia, there is also a bug which makes the Persian AI settle cities extremely close. You remember Leoreth, when a few days ago somebody posted a pic of the Indian AI owning 2 cities one tile away in Central Asia; i have a feeling that they were founded by Persia. You should definitely look into it.

Yeah, that was me.

Persia is all sorts of messed up right now, least of which being the city distance.
They never seem to respawn right (same as Rome & China) and always end up being carved up by Arabia, Turkey & India.

 

[Gem Hound]

Found a second bug during my game.(attached) Crashed on me three times in a row as the Phoenicians(end the turn and it crashes.)

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I have a pretty sizable report to make from a Persia->transitioned into Maya game.

Will split this into two parts since I took a lot of photos.



This was the point where I switched to Maya.
I just barely missed the 8% of the World's Land Area UHV condition and as you can see, my economy is pretty much in shambles.



I've been taking a bunch of peeks into WorldBuilder to get a better idea of other people's complaints. I know this is just one game but I'd like everyone to at least gleam something from this. Mongolian invasion of Arabia taking place here, doesn't look too wrong.



Mongol conquest of China going swimmingly. They had Pikes but they weren't enough (rather they didn't build enough) to stand up to their Keshiks & Trebs. If anyone wants to post their own shots of China successfully resisting the Mongols and becoming the "tech monster", that would be great for a comparison too.







Surprisingly though, the Mongols' most successful conquest was against the Russians. Despite General Winter and all of that, it was by far their easiest conquest.

So let me break it down from what I saw during this campaign pertaining to the Mongols:

Arabia: Managed to take Samarqand and captured Artacoana & another city briefly but were repulsed from the region permanently. They failed. I've only seen the Mongols ever take on the Arabs successfully once and even then, it was a little weird, with the Mongols overrunning western Arabia but bypassing Baghdad.
China: China put up a spirited fight and for whatever reason, the Mongols could not take Xian, although the east coast went down quickly. China collapsed and the Mongols were able to get bits and pieces here and there but their hold over the cities was tenuous all across the campaign and numerous cities became independent over the course of play. They had Engineering but I saw very few Pikes.
Russia: Surprisingly very easy for them. I did see a Barbarian uprising and a Viking stack in the vicinity but they were both nowhere near the general killzone.
India: Already dead from my time as Persia. No conquerors here.



Weird Ottoman capital. Every former Persian Greek city was razed by barbs before their spawn and I never built Constantinople so yeah...



Also, it appeared that the Mongols moved their capital to Beijing and wanted to form the Yuan. I've never seen that before.

Second half coming up.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Okay, part two.



Here we have Arabian conquerors attacking Inca.

(Nobody got conquerors on me since I was able to send Caravels to Asia & Europe.
I luckily managed to circumnavigate as Maya too.)

Honestly, it is nice to see non-Euro AI conquerors from time to time.
I like that in the current build of DoC, anything from Turkish, Arabian, Chinese & Indian conquerors are a bit more common. While I do like the basic rails of the game being historical, personally I play all of my campaigns ahistorically and like to see the AI do ahistorical things.



The Mongols actually held Chongqing before taking Xian and I think it broke away from them, explaining the Indy Keshiks in there. But yeah, after a long time, they were able to take the former capital.



Is it just me or is the stability penalty for Maya excessively harsh?
I've been building as many commerce buildings and whatnot as I possibly could but I had to suffer the last leg of the race to 1745 in unstable/collapsing.



Post-mortem shot, starting from my switch to the Maya.



Here, you can see the barbs razed everything west of Greece.
They later razed Greece as well.



A good shot of some Mongol action.



The end game.

Also, I don't have any shots of it but I did find two bugs.

The first one being that I realized that when I switched to the Maya,
all my Game options switched to the default settings despite the Game options screens displaying my previous options checked.
i.e. Quick Moves for units would be checked on the screen but in the game,
my units' animations were the same as the default settings.
Unchecking them and then rechecking them again seemed to fix it although inconvient.

The second one being that I couldn't ever select an AI's gold in a diplomacy trade. Like ever. I suspect that it has something to do with the player switch.
The no Gold trades as a switched Civ thing kind of breaks the game for whoever you switched to.

 

[Gem Hound]

The first one being that I realized that when I switched to the Maya,
all my Game options switched to the default settings despite the Game options screens displaying my previous options checked.

I found that as a bug with the civ flip for all RFC. I took it as a simple inconvenience that is easy to fix.


Edit:
There is a MAJOR problem with Persia.
OOOHHHHH!!!! Major bug! Only built Parsa, moved a settler and a chariot and this happens:

Spoiler :

By rock119 at 2011-09-26

I had to use Task Manager to shut the game off as it copied itself ALOT. >_<

 

[BenZL43]

Attilla the Hun attacking at 1270 AD?

 

[Leoreth]

There is a MAJOR problem with Persia.
OOOHHHHH!!!! Major bug! Only built Parsa, moved a settler and a chariot and this happens:

Spoiler :

By rock119 at 2011-09-26

I had to use Task Manager to shut the game off as it copied itself ALOT. >_<

Do you still know which unit you had selected at that time?

Attilla the Hun attacking at 1270 AD?

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

What's that supposed to mean?

Referring to my Barbarian Uprising event that aided in the death of Russia.
Check the postmortem screenies for more info.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, that one. It's one of those generic BtS events. I already wanted to disable them once because they're all represented in RFC anyway and it often gets weird when Egypt is invaded by the Vedic Aryans

 

[Gem Hound]

Do you still know which unit you had selected at that time?

A settler flipping to the next unit which was an immortal. Why?

 

[Leoreth]

Because as far as I was able to backtrack the error there was a problem with the unit icon display in the interface. I'll take a look if something's wrong with the Immortal then.