Build Order Discussion: Example 1

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
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Dec 31, 2005
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I mentioned some talk about build orders before, but that in more general terms, and I think people found that too "wishy washy". So now we can look at a specific example together. Once finalized with feedback I might post this to the strategy forum as a guide.

Spoiler :

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The Background
This is the 6th city for Portugal (playing Progress into Statecraft), in the later expansion era (aka my last few cities with settlers, before the next expansion phase with pioneers). This is an "ok" city spot, its meant to take the strategics, solidify the borders to give me sole access to the lucrative northern klondike territory, and ultimately serve as a workhorse city. This is not going to be a fancy high yield city, it will be a solid city that is likely going to be a good unit producer, eventually with stables.

We are past the religious race but still in the spread phase (and I have churches to build) so faith is important but not critical.

India is beneath me. I am going to play a citadel on the wheat to secure the border and the strategics (power of portugal!). India has been friendly so far, but with this close border that could change, and so this will be a good area to defend against should he decide to push.
Because this is a bit later of a city, I have a number of options to build. What should my build order look like?


Initial Decisions
  • Monument / Well / Walls
Though wells are always a great building, as Portugal I have high science but want to keep my culture balanced, so I think a monument is still the name of the game. Further I do have several tiles in the 2nd ring that I want, and so getting those borders going will save me a lot of gold in the future.

The well is next, it will give me a solid boost overall to this city for cheap.

If I didn't have a citadel coming, I might consider walls early, afterall India is right beneath me. But I just got to steel and with my a citadel in play I feel confident I could hold a southern push, so the wall will be later.
  • Granary / Shrine
I already have my TRs going as Portugal, and with only 1 wheat tile, the granary is not looking so great. Once the Granary gets its old food bonus back its always a consideration, but right now its going to back of the line. I will pick up the shrine next, I want to secure my religious holdings before India starts to ramp up their own religion. Heck I might even try to convert India, hitting them with a strong GP early before their passive pressure kicks can really disrupt their religion, though that will certainly piss him off, so best not to kick the hornet's nest until I have troops going. Its possible I may have to skip the shrine as well if I start feeling pressure from India

  • Barracks / Arena / Forge vs Council / Library
This is a common decision point. Should I focus on a nice cheap science pick up with the CL play, or go BAF for a more well rounded approach? Since Portugal has a strong science yield already with 4 TRs (I got the collossus) and this city is again a unit producing workhorse, I think the BAF is the better play here. I'll go barracks first in case India does start to sour, the arena next for some production, and then forge. By the time I have the forge done I hope to have some mines up, and with that it should secure me a nice production base for units. The cherry on top will be the Armory, making my unit producing city ready to rock.

  • Stables or Units or Council?
Though I don't have them yet, by the time I've built everything above I should have access to stables, and this is a pretty decent stable city. On the other hand, its easy to get caught up in infrastructure and forget the purpose of the city. Can't be a unit producer if you don't produce units! So I think this is where I would break for some unit producing action. The stables will likely be my next building right afterwards, though the council is always tempting since its so cheap...but I think I would stick to my guns and go with a stable. I have other cities for big yields, but if I have no army it won't matter. I will add in a walls at some point should I need to, but considering I'll have a number of my army produced here, I should be protected.

Build Order Plan
  • Monument
  • Well
  • Shrine
  • Barracks
  • Arena
  • Forge
  • Armory
  • Unit production until comfortable
  • Stables

The Next Phase
So once my units are out and my stables built, where do I go from here? Happiness might be a factor, if the unit gets too unhappy I won't be able to produce units from it well.

I would probably build the council / library next. Its great value and gives me a happiness free specialist, which I will likely need at this point to balance out the books. Market is a low priority until I'm closer to banks, lodge and herbalist aren't really needed for this city, I might wait until I have industry's science on buildings policy and then fill those back out. Temple is a lower priority in this city, as is the Aqueduct. I don't need this city growing large, I just need it to do its job, and there are no lakes to work, so aqueducts are a lower priority until happiness becomes problematic.

I'll have other new buildings available at this point, likely: University, Workshop, Guilds, Gardens, Castles probably at a minimum. This city won't host guilds, so the garden is likely out as well. The workshop is an interesting question, its an essential building but its not going to get a lot of bonuses here. Should I build it early and delay some unit production, or wait until factories and rush it as a prereq to that building? That will depend on pressure, if I'm in a war or under threat I'll likely need to forego it for more unit time. But if I'm comfortable, best to pay the piper earlier, as it will eventually pay for itself. University is great but ultimately this is a work city and I may have to delay it, happiness will be a possible factor there.

Final Build Order (Tentative)
As we are now projecting pretty far into the future, a lof of things become more tentative, so this is speculative at best. However, this is what the general plan is:

  • Monument
  • Well
  • Shrine
  • Barracks
  • Arena
  • Forge
  • Armory
  • Unit production until comfortable
  • Stables
  • Council
  • Library
  • Workshop
  • More Units


Thoughts on this order, would you do things differently?
 
The thing I disagree with most is that workshop so early, especially in a city with so few forests (heck I might just chop most of those down).

Also university isn't even listed but I nearly always (like 99% of time) build them before workshops. Amphitheaters and temples too. Workshops just aren't a great general purpose building, if you really want to focus on army I wouldn't even reserach civil service early.
 
I'd skip the shrine, 2 faith is meaningless when you already founded and sit at +40f (and you said you won't build the temple so shrine that early in the build order is questionable). Build it when it only takes 1 turn and nets you 30+ culture (so Renaissance). I'd build the forge before the barracks and work the engineer, locking growth until I have a bunch of upgraded tiles (horses, sheep, a mine and a village or two) to work and only then build the council, or skip it for later. No need for walls next to India, in any case you have some turns to realize if he's pissed at you but build units before static defense.

Alternative, if you can spare a production TR, council earlier, rush 4-5 pop working the pastures and then get stables earlier than 'BAF'
 
So I've worked through the build order through armory in that city. What I found was growth was actually a problem, I've only got 6 pop, and I wasn't really filled out the production tiles yet. Maybe the granary would have been a good option here.
 
Alternative, if you can spare a production TR, council earlier, rush 4-5 pop working the pastures and then get stables earlier than 'BAF'
Giving up an ETR that could give me 4-5 science and maybe 2 culture, along with some gold to rush a low science building earlier I think is pretty questionable. Now if this was my sole unit producing center and I need every drop of hammer I could see it, but I think doing it to slip in a few buildings compared to the raw yield of ETR is hard to justify.
 
The thing I disagree with most is that workshop so early, especially in a city with so few forests (heck I might just chop most of those down).

Also university isn't even listed but I nearly always (like 99% of time) build them before workshops. Amphitheaters and temples too. Workshops just aren't a great general purpose building, if you really want to focus on army I wouldn't even reserach civil service early.
I had forgotten to list baths as well. I'll agree on the workshop, I actually had forgotten my feitoria so I'm tearing down one of the forest to get that anyway, so yeah workshop just is not going to give a lot of yields.
 
With that many hills id be going forge arena barracks. Also would get stable up before unit production if possible. Would also skip shrine.
 
Depends a bit on what difficulty but there are some issue imo.
The city have two decent food tiles, flood plains (not yet in radius) and a fish tile (but you're not coastal....) so something like:
  • Monument
  • Well
  • Forge
  • Council
  • Barracks (so you can emergency purchase units)
  • Maybe lodge here because food on border growth isnt bad and you have two deer tiles.
  • Granary, probably need this because low food on tiles.
  • Library
  • Arena
  • Armory
  • Shrine
Id insert walls whenever diplo situation gets bad.
Maybe late stables if the city is big enough, plains and tundra horse are not that hot tiles to work without fealty/god of open sky.
The rivers towards india are good and make things awkward for his units to retreat incase of a war but the lands to the northeast mean you need to road a lot to circle units in and out.
 
The city have two decent food tiles, flood plains (not yet in radius) and a fish tile (but you're not coastal....)
The fish is going to the eastern city that is on coast. You mentioned 2 deer which is technically correct but that 2nd deer is far out. To note that 40 turns later I still have not gotten that tile naturally, and its 170 gold to buy right now.
 
The fish is going to the eastern city that is on coast. You mentioned 2 deer which is technically correct but that 2nd deer is far out. To note that 40 turns later I still have not gotten that tile naturally, and its 170 gold to buy right now.
Normal speed?
What size is it now?
 
I had forgotten to list baths as well. I'll agree on the workshop, I actually had forgotten my feitoria so I'm tearing down one of the forest to get that anyway, so yeah workshop just is not going to give a lot of yields.
Is the city on freshwater? Otherwise no baths.
 
I'm just getting back into playing but have some thoughts. I'm sort of ignoring the particularities of this specific city's terrain and your specific situation and thinking more generally.

This city is past the initial core city settlement so it is most likely going to be a while before it contributes meaningfully to yields. When settling city #2 in the early game the +2 culture from a monument or faith from a shrine is a good chunk of culture and good for border growth when money is tight. When settling city #6 in the mid game the yields from a monument/council/shrine are far less impactful compared to your empire wide yields per turn.

The only real way the city contributes near term is in providing a defensible border, so walls. I'd make sure that you could build walls in that city before India DoWs and arrives with units. Aside from that, I'd focus on getting that city ramped up in production so that it does start contributing as a decent city as soon as possible. Production typically comes quickest from the Forge-Arena-Barracks triumvirate or from growing your population in order to work more tiles so Granary/Well/Lodge/Herbalist/Aqueduct/etc depending on what makes sense for a given city.

I'd probably only focus on science/culture/faith after I've gotten the border city defensible and ramped up its production.
 
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