Caste society civic question

[xtended2l]

Is it fine that when I change "Caste" society civic to anything else, all my specialists change from +1 food to -1?

With Caste:


Then we change from this to anything else:


Without Caste:


Isn't it supposed to be 0 food without Caste? Or am I miss something?

 

[xtended2l]

Just a little addition - not all specialists. Priests revert fine from 0 to +1 food and back. So it is true for all except priests.

 

[robbyextreme]

Seems like a bug? can't comment on that but if you want a temporary fix you can go into Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4CivicInfos.xml and change the values under line 2927. Just backup the file first at least you wont have to start a new game.

 

[xtended2l]

Thanks mate, it works. I changed all 100's to 0 and now caste doesnt give bonus to specialist's food, and food isnt subtracted when I change from caste. So yeah it is fine as a temporary solution. Thanks again.

 

[zeroRPGmaker]

Ooo... sounds like a nasty bug.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I remember there was a bug when switching out of caste; as a workaround, months ago, I added in the code a forced recalc each time someone switches out of caste. For some reason, this isn't working properly, it seems. Recalculating again (ctrl+shift+t) solves the problem of the -1 food

 

[xtended2l]

I remember there was a bug when switching out of caste; as a workaround, months ago, I added in the code a forced recalc each time someone switches out of caste. For some reason, this isn't working properly, it seems. Recalculating again (ctrl+shift+t) solves the problem of the -1 food

Good to know. I'll give it a try.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Is this actually causing -1 food, or just saying that it is?

I'm poking around the code base now. Trouble is, one would really have to find every method call that does any writing of a tooltip string for specialists, to check that its logic is valid. But the only way to chart the codebase is to work "up" from the function written to transmit the value for +1 food from the civic data. So you don't end up ever knowing that you found the text responsible for the surrounding behaviour.

There's oodles of disparate locations in the source for the instructions to build these tooltips.... Maintaining c++ is only trying to get lucky.

edit: anyway, I'm 80% sure the problem is in CvPlayer::changeSpecialistYieldPercentChanges(SpecialistTypes, YieldTypes, int)

It double processes player specialist modifiers, is Inappropriately Intimate with CvCity (but that seems to be the name of the game, in c++), and has plenty of abuses of variable naming that could very well conceal a logic error.

 

[xtended2l]

I dont know if it is for real or just display issues, but after reclculating several times for me and my wife(we are playing LAN game), I jumped from +100 to -1200 gold per turn
But at least now everything is fine with specilaists

 

[Pepo]

Yeah calculations sometimes go mad in the mod. With food for example you can sometimes get it from thin air. It also doesn't seem to calculate corporations resources outputs correctly

 

[Slarki]

I dont know if it is for real or just display issues, but after reclculating several times for me and my wife(we are playing LAN game), I jumped from +100 to -1200 gold per turn
But at least now everything is fine with specilaists

does anyone know if this is the same in multiplayer? Which calculation does it take then or will it just desync?

 

[rtt4a]

Cant confirm MP but personally i dont use recalc ever because usually it destroys game.. it messes up many things in my experience, gold, sciense etc..

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@HorseshoeHermit it's not just a display glitch, it really counts as - 1 food.

The bug is the same in MP as calculations are the same. If you both recalc (one at the time) the game should stay in sync (will oos briefly and then resync).

@rtt4a if there's such a huge difference most probably the calc error was before recalc, not after. There's a known bug I haven’t solved yet where for some reason some resources are counted twice.

 

[black213]

On a related note, isn't Caste OP as it is right now? Unlimited scientists so early on?

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

you've still got to feed them, and you need the population to 'spawn' them in 'unlimited' numbers.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

@HorseshoeHermit it's not just a display glitch, it really counts as - 1 food.

ok that helps

I'll be testing.... but.... procrastination...

 

[robbyextreme]

On a related note, isn't Caste OP as it is right now? Unlimited scientists so early on?

If Caste offered unlimited Engineers I agree it would be OP but they don't. Hammers are a lot better early game than science beakers.

 

[philipschall]

With Angkor Wat, you can essentially get unlimited engineers. I'd argue that caste is kinda strong in the early game, and absolutely dominant in the late game. When you have a few +%Food buildings, you can increase the amount of food each specialist produces. So if each specialist produces 1.5 food, then two specialists can total 3.5 specialists. If your city is already working all available tiles, then no civ can beat your pop number and the bonuses they provide.

 

[Vokarya]

I am not opposed to making changes to Caste. I would like to know, for the players who are really exploiting this, at what point does the unlimited specialists become a problem and how many specialists can you run at that time? I feel Caste needs a little something more than just unlimited specialists. Unlimited specialists looks great in theory but if you can't fill all the specialist slots that you get from buildings, then that benefit is meaningless. There are two things that I think make it harder for unlimited specialists to be civic-worthy on its own.

• Citizens in AND eat 3 food/turn rather than 2. This makes it harder to support specialists until Food-producing buildings kick in.
  
• AND is more generous with specialist slots from buildings.
  • In BTS, you generally have one early building that grants specialist slots (Theatre, Library, Forge, Market, Courthouse) and then one or two buildings in the late game. Priest is instead limited by how many religions can spread to the city (you get one Priest per religion from Temple). The game maxes out at 4-5 slots of each Specialist.
    
  • I designed AND to give 1 specialist slot from buildings per era up to the Renaissance, and then 2 per era beyond that. By the end of the Industrial Era, you are looking at 6 slots of each specialist type, and 10 by the very end of the game.

 

[<Nexus>]

With Angkor Wat, you can essentially get unlimited engineers. I'd argue that caste is kinda strong in the early game, and absolutely dominant in the late game. When you have a few +%Food buildings, you can increase the amount of food each specialist produces. So if each specialist produces 1.5 food, then two specialists can total 3.5 specialists. If your city is already working all available tiles, then no civ can beat your pop number and the bonuses they provide.

For this reason I changed the +1 to +1 in my version. After all caste system is NOT about food production. Overcrowded India is only one example for caste but other caste societies don't have that high population.