Cataphract Era Help

[Mr. Will]

Hey,
I've kind of made myself librarian (Yes, I know there is supposedly another library coming soon, but I'l keep working on the current one anyway.) and I was wondering if Cataphract units go into Ancient or Medievel units? They're about halfway between horseman and knights, and thus are difficult to place. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[soren]

Are you talking about in the game or in reality?

 

[Gogf]

Medieval, IMO.

 

[soren]

I agree: Medieval

In the civ, they are Medieval. In reality, they (please tell me if I am incorrect) spaned from the Ancient to High Middle Ages.

 

[Chieftess]

I'll pm Xen.

Personally, I think middle ages.

 

[soren]

Originally posted by Chieftess
I'll pm Xen.

Personally, I think middle ages.

Who (a person I assume) is "Xen?"

 

[Chieftess]

He hasn't posted in the Civ3 sections recently, but when Civ3 Conquests came out (and even before), he posted a lot about Cataphracts.

 

[Xen]

technically, they are the same as knight- heavilly armed and amruord horsemen, but fulfil a slightlly different tactical role- in all respects, a cataphract is superior to a knight- as a knight is a fuedal based trooper, and can existst in but limited numbers- while a cataphract is merelly an arm of the army, and can be trained as much as needed

in battley they did not use lances, but a type spear, though i myself tend to, ebcause of is size (over 12 feet) call it a pike

this means that while not as good at the pure charge, in actual hand to hand combat, the cataphract is more versatile, with the knotos-spear being used in a fencing type style

all this is ontop fo the fact the cataphract was amulti role unit, at least in Byzantine and late Roman armies, as they were trained to fight with kontos,sword, mace and bow

all in all, simply put, I would just make it a replacement for the knight, if you want to be creative, i also suggest a postion as a Byzantine and Roman (and greek?) secondary UU, an early knight, perhaps availible with constuction, or some other late ancient age tech- because, depending on your point of view, they came into use during the "dark ages" (which i consider formt he reign of constantine until the classic end of the dark ages)

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Chieftess
He hasn't posted in the Civ3 sections recently, but when Civ3 Conquests came out (and even before), he posted a lot about Cataphracts.

ahhhhh,but CT, you are but putting it mildlly

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by soren
Who (a person I assume) is "Xen?"

the greatest and most glorious of all spammers(well, after von sibling, ofcourse ) and classical civlization fanatics on this website

(and a notroious misspeller of words, but i dont care )

 

[Dronten]

What is this? Cataphracts were in use from 6th century BC, which is about 1500 years before the middle ages.

 

[Xen]

I talk of Byzantio-Roman cataphracts, not the persian or armenian horsemen who only in modern times are give tnthe name cataphract in full (though they may have been reference as such by the Romans and such)

 

[Mr. Will]

Wow! Thanks a lot, I wasn't expecting that much feedback. Anyway, I'm smarter and humbler now. Thanks a lot for your help! By the way, check out the new part of the library!
My Section of the Library

 

[LostKnight]

Cataphract wasnt stronger then knight, byzantine empire trained catapharact because their legion was getting smash by monted archer of the steppes. Cataphract usually was carrying sword,spear,bow and shield. Thier name come from the armor they used: some kind of scale armor called CATAPHRACT. Their as not as strong as the full-plated heavy-lance using knight of the middle-age.

For the first question asked, use it as a very late ancient unit.

 

[Frostyboy]

I am just etymologically interested - Does anyone know from what (greek or latin) words the Cataphract comes from?

 

[Gogf]

Originally posted by Chieftess
He hasn't posted in the Civ3 sections recently, but when Civ3 Conquests came out (and even before), he posted a lot about Cataphracts.

This may be the understatement of the month .

 

[silver 2039]

Originally posted by Gogf
This may be the understatement of the month .

Year, Decade, Centuary , Mellinum.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by LostKnight
Cataphract wasnt stronger then knight, byzantine empire trained catapharact because their legion was getting smash by monted archer of the steppes. Cataphract usually was carrying sword,spear,bow and shield. Thier name come from the armor they used: some kind of scale armor called CATAPHRACT. Their as not as strong as the full-plated heavy-lance using knight of the middle-age.

For the first question asked, use it as a very late ancient unit.

for all intesive purposes the legion as we know, and the Romans knew it had not been used sisnce the reign of septimus serverus and caracalla, as economic woes in the Roman empire forced the quality of troops, supplies and equipment to go down hill, the "legion" by the time of the development of the cataphract was little more then the poorest frotir auxilliary untis of the imperial era organised more like a classic legion, although the emperor constantine, as in most cases, managed to screw up Romes military as well as civil life, by organising the army in his palantina fashion, the only good to come out of it was when the Byzantine emperor heraclius totally reorganized tghe Byzantine army- for all intensive purposes an army unchanged since the Roman emperor constantine aside fromt he whole issue of the for a rathe rlonger period of time dominace of germanic mercenaries, he organized them into the rather ingenious thematic system, a system which aided Byzantium to no end in surviving the near ceasless wars of the middle ages, until, again, the economy went belly up, and that orginazation was runied for the Byzantines

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Frostyboy
I am just etymologically interested - Does anyone know from what (greek or latin) words the Cataphract comes from?

orginally Greek, though it did inspire a latinate varient (cataphractii), and although iften translated as "armored", a direct translation is closer to "enclosed" a reference to the heavy armor worn by horse and rider

 

[supaguruzebidy]

Oh wow it looks like xen started again. My granny had cataphracts but she went and saw the doctors and had them removed. Now she doesnt walk into the walls or fall down the stairs anymore which is a shame cause it was funny!