Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[strategyonly]

I have.

BTW @SO how do I get rid of the extra art styles for the units? Used to be I would delete the "Varietas Delectat" in the Modules folder but now when I do that the game CTDs at the loading uncached XML stage.

You cant. It must stay in the modules area, too much is now attached to it.

 

[Actuarian]

Regarding the resource limit, here is the thread discussing that.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350298

After initially reporting sucess, Aforess retracted his comment. If you go over the limit it starts to conflict with other game components. Here is what part of the first post says:

"After extensive testing, it seems that this fix is only a partial fix. Adding more resources, while it appears to work on the outside, still ruins anything that uses the larger game font icons, namely the city bar. This why Healthiness and Happiness indicators were broken for a while in my beta's.

Sadly, it seems we will ever be able to add any more resources.

We may just have to invent a new way to do some of the things resources did, and remove some redundant or useless resources.. (Ancient Temple, I'm looking at you!) "

 

[Talin2009]

Here's a savegame turn before UI started glitching (23 feb version). Install contains extra civs from first page, except Israel and Mexico (i manually removed them after install) + extra leaderheads.

This is turn when i first saw month appear - turn after glitches start. So i stick to my conclusion that it's because of year-month timing error on that speed.

p.s. i tried loading game cleaning cache, but it crashed when i did so, and honestly i don't think it has anything to do with cache.
p.p.s. ok, so i found semi-workaround for glitch - i turn off showing year in options, and glitching stopped, however if i try to save game that turn or see game log CTRL-tab it still crashes - that makes me sure problem is incorrect year/month game trying to show/write in log/use in file name.

Gonna play and see if i will come to solid CTD.

 

[brcane]

I've been getting a CTD everytime I research industrialism, fwiw

 

[rwglaub]

You reversed artillery and light artillery...

 

[strategyonly]

OK here is a sneak peek at the Galactic Era (black):

 

[Hydromancerx]

OK i figured it out, everything is exactly the way it is supposed to be, if you look at your techs (pic1) the color of poetry and music are a "little" LESS gold then the shinier renaissance era ones.

But i changed the colors around in the newer one i am making and you can now see the difference alot more clearer, i just had to figured out what the heck python file contained the right info, but now i get a Blue Prehistoric era for some reason, oh well, you can definitely tell the difference in the techs now (pic 2).

The drastic color change seems much better.

@Hydro: these are from the Civics Screen meaning something about them are missing per that area.??

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10257904&postcount=1282

Well i have no idea i looked in the Water mod and all text is present and then I look to where it references those and it should go to the correct text "tag". I am really at a loss why its doing that. I mean the Water Pipes, Water Pumping Station and Well seem to show up fine and they have the same stuff in place as the others.

p.s. small idea on poetry tech - to make it a little bit less useless - add 1 culture to library (at least it makes sense).

I like that idea.

OK here is a sneak peek at the Galactic Era (black):

Looking good. Do you need me to post more tech info? It gets a little confusing with what Civ_Fuhrer had planned out. I am doing my best to sort out what he ment. I have also PMed him to join the topic on this subject.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am getting the word "insurance" all by itself in the tech tree doesn't even have a tech box like any other tech does. Cant take screen dumps atm.

Also as a teaser attached is working but not graphically distinct Hunter changes (Tracker -> Hunter -> Ranger) and an early caravan. Plus the medieval caravan but I have not attached it to a building yet. The compressed file just contains the DancingHoskuld folder that goes in Modules folder. Not save compatible. What do you think? Know of any suitable graphics?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Also as a teaser attached is working but not graphically distinct Hunter changes (Tracker -> Hunter -> Ranger) and an early caravan. Plus the medieval caravan but I have not attached it to a building yet. The compressed file just contains the DancingHoskuld folder that goes in Modules folder. Not save compatible. What do you think? Know of any suitable graphics?

Yay! Which units need suitable graphics? All of them?

 

[JosEPh_II]

DH wrote:1) What do you mean by "Human units"? Do you mean that they belong to your civ not the new barbarian civ? If so you may have found a pointer to what is going on there.

In version 8 the New Barb cities had no human (vs animal) units in or around them. In this version that Barb City has Plenty of Barb human units, in it and around it.

I'll add your update and see if I can continue. If not then I'll try deleting the Barb City to my north and see if that allows continued play. Right now that game is dead in it's tracks.

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

How is this?

Public Utilities (-%)
- Biofuel Power Plant
- Biomass Power Plant
- Bus Station
- Cistern
- Desalination Plant
- Fire Brigade
- Fire Dock
- Fire Hangar
- Fire Hydrants
- Fire Station
- Garbage Collection Agency
- Geothermal Power Plant
- High Tech Coal Power Plant
- Methane Power Plant
- Microwave Power Plant
- Natural Gas Powerplant
- Paved Roads
- Personal Rapid Train
- Power Lines
- Public Transportation
- Recycling Center
- Reservoir
- Sewer System
- Solar Mirror Array
- Solar Photovoltaic Power Plant
- Solar Photovoltaic Roofs
- Solar Power Satellite
- Super Coal Power Plant
- Telephone Network
- Tidal Farm
- Town Well
- Waste Incinerator Power Plant
- Water Pipes
- Water Pumping Station
- Water Tower
- Water Treatment Plant
- Wave Farm
- Wind Farm
- Wind Water Pump

Leisure (- Maintenance %)
- Airfield
- Aquarium
- Arena
- Ballroom
- Battlebot Arena
- Cruise Ship Port
- Drama School
- Fairgrounds
- Fencing Academy
- Fighting Pit
- Gladiatorial School
- Graveyard
- Ice Rink
- Jousting Tournament
- Major League Stadium
- Minor League Stadium
- Music School
- Petting Zoo
- Public Pool
- Ranger Station
- Recreation Center
- Ski Resort
- Speedway
- State Park
- Vacation Resort
- Water Raceway
- Zero G Sports Arena
- Zoo

Defense (-)
- Booby Traps
- Castle
- Citadel
- City Gatehouse
- Landmines
- Mechanical Traps
- Pit Traps
- Police Station
- Robotic Traps
- Security Center
- Town Watch

Bureaucracy (-1/2 -1/2 Maintenance %)
- City Council
- Guild Hall
- Metropolitan Administration
- Social Services
- Town Hall
- Village Hall
- Welfare Office

? (Where should these go and should some of these have their cost taken out?)
- Farm Supply
- Florist
- Greenhouse
- Hammam
- Insane Assylum
- Manor
- Retirement Home
- Saloon
- Servant's Quarter
- Throne Room
- Townclock
- Weather Station

What do you think?

 

[rwglaub]

I also got a CTD right after discovering Industrialization.

I say again, you guys reversed Light Artillery and Artillery. In the game and ServoPedia, when you research Artillery you actually get Light Artillery, and when you research Guerrilla Warfare you get Artillery.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Also as a teaser attached is working but not graphically distinct Hunter changes (Tracker -> Hunter -> Ranger) and an early caravan. Plus the medieval caravan but I have not attached it to a building yet. The compressed file just contains the DancingHoskuld folder that goes in Modules folder. Not save compatible. What do you think? Know of any suitable graphics?

The hunter should not be able to hold a Hawk. Only the Ranger should be able to, due to "Falconry" tech.

Also the Tracker should not get "Hunting Sight" since you hve not gotten "Hunting" tech yet.

@strategyonly

1. Please make the "Guard Dog" unit require the "Guard Dog Trainer" building. The other 2 dog units seem to be ok, but that one is missing a building requirement.

2. Also please put in the "Police Dog" and "Canis Superior" units units that we discussed in the PM.

3. Are you still going to do the rest of the Camel Units?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@ DH:

You shouldn't take out VD from the modules area, cause some stuff are linked to it.

I still get this
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 998, in forceScreenRedraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 1476, in redraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 5988, in updateHelpStrings

Spoiler :

# Will update the help Strings
	def updateHelpStrings( self ):
	
		screen = CyGInterfaceScreen( "MainInterface", CvScreenEnums.MAIN_INTERFACE )

		if ( CyInterface().getShowInterface() == InterfaceVisibility.INTERFACE_HIDE_ALL ):
			screen.setHelpTextString( "" )
		else:
			[B]screen.setHelpTextString( CyInterface().getHelpString() )[/B]
		
		return 0

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception

but before it was just around the gatherer stuff, but now i am in the industrial era, never had that error before like that.

Actually that is the bit of code I thought I fixed but what you pasted is not what my code I posted looks like. Anyway, don't worry, my fix did not work either. As far as I can tell what is happening is that somewhere we have forgotten to "provide" or "tell where" help text of some kind is for all the new improvements probably including Vincentz industry stuff. This means that someone needs to look at the C++ and try and figure out what is missing. Thunderbrd? The code is not handling a None type passed correctly. If we new where the CyInterface was looking for the help text that may help.

Regarding the resource limit, here is the thread discussing that.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350298

After initially reporting sucess, Aforess retracted his comment. If you go over the limit it starts to conflict with other game components. Here is what part of the first post says:

"After extensive testing, it seems that this fix is only a partial fix. Adding more resources, while it appears to work on the outside, still ruins anything that uses the larger game font icons, namely the city bar. This why Healthiness and Happiness indicators were broken for a while in my beta's.

Sadly, it seems we will ever be able to add any more resources.

We may just have to invent a new way to do some of the things resources did, and remove some redundant or useless resources.. (Ancient Temple, I'm looking at you!) "

Except that in C2C we have already passed the limit. Or am I imagining that timber and bison are working?

Yay! Which units need suitable graphics? All of them?

Tracker, ranger and Merchant all need graphics - unit and button.

I was going to do a quick and dirty with the Tracker and Ranger and make their coats a different colour. Both on the unit and the button but as usual whenever I do graphic stuff everything goes pink. Which is what happens whenever I try and use PakBuild, except when it decides to delete everything that is.

The hunter should not be able to hold a Hawk. Only the Ranger should be able to, due to "Falconry" tech.

Also the Tracker should not get "Hunting Sight" since you hve not gotten "Hunting" tech yet.

@strategyonly

Please make the "Guard Dog" unit require the "Guard Dog Trainer" building. The other 2 dog units seem to be ok, but that one is missing a building requirement.

I have also not updated the promotions so they are only available to the hunter. Ah, hawk module defines who can carry it. I was thinking of removing the hawk completely so that was why it was in a different module. I can now merge it back in.

 

[Actuarian]

@ Dancing Hoskuld - Afforess said that having too many resources screws other things up. It makes sense that that is why the commerce isn't working in the city screen. If you can't find an answer you might look to too many resources as the culprit.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@ Dancing Hoskuld - Afforess said that having too many resources screws other things up. It makes sense that that is why the commerce isn't working in the city screen. If you can't find an answer you might look to too many resources as the culprit.

Too many resources caused the icons to change and fonts to mess up everywhere. none of that is happening. I also remember Afforess posting somewhere that he had fixed the problem.

The commerce screwing up in the city screen probably has the same cause as the Immigration mod not working correctly. I do not yet know enough to be sure and I am testing out some stuff as I go.

@StrategyOnly, one of the problems with the Immigration mod is that it uses callbacks and none have been turned on in the XML. See attached. There may be another problem but I am still struggling to understand what needs to be done.

I can't find the code for the "Animal Placement" mod new version? Is it in v9? If not can I get a copy. It may help me figure out what I need to know. Also, I may "pinch" (reuse) some of the code so subdued animals can place resources on the map.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd

How is this?

Public Utilities (-%)
- Biofuel Power Plant
- Biomass Power Plant
- Bus Station
- Cistern
- Desalination Plant
- Fire Brigade
- Fire Dock
- Fire Hangar
- Fire Hydrants
- Fire Station
- Garbage Collection Agency
- Geothermal Power Plant
- Graveyard
- High Tech Coal Power Plant
- Methane Power Plant
- Microwave Power Plant
- Natural Gas Powerplant
- Paved Roads
- Personal Rapid Train
- Power Lines
- Public Transportation
- Recycling Center
- Reservoir
- Sewer System
- Solar Mirror Array
- Solar Photovoltaic Power Plant
- Solar Photovoltaic Roofs
- Solar Power Satellite
- Super Coal Power Plant
- Telephone Network
- Tidal Farm
- Town Well
- Waste Incinerator Power Plant
- Water Pipes
- Water Pumping Station
- Water Tower
- Water Treatment Plant
- Wave Farm
- Wind Farm
- Wind Water Pump
- Retirement Home
- Farm Supply
- Greenhouse
- Townclock
- Weather Station
Any public school building should probably be included in this category, in short, anything that requires some staffing or consistent work to upkeep that builds in demand as the city grows...


Leisure (+ Maintenance % penalty)
- Aquarium
- Arena
- Ballroom
- Battlebot Arena
- Cruise Ship Port
- Drama School
- Fairgrounds
- Ice Rink
- Major League Stadium
- Minor League Stadium
- Music School
- Petting Zoo
- Public Pool
- Recreation Center
- Ski Resort
- Speedway
- Vacation Resort
- Water Raceway
- Zero G Sports Arena
- Zoo
- Theater

- Saloon
Probably more could apply here... I suggest adding anything that could feasibly increase the crime rate/societal slack to this list, such as even Bandit Camps and such.

Defense (-)
- Airfield
- Booby Traps
- Castle
- Citadel
- City Gatehouse
- Fencing Academy
- Fighting Pit
- Gladiatorial School
- Jousting Tournament
- Landmines
- Mechanical Traps
- Pit Traps
- Robotic Traps
- Security Center
- Town Watch
I'd include barracks and their ilk in this category... would make you think twice about including them in EVERY city! And the current method of AI determinations would harmonize for them nicely I think.

Bureaucracy (-1/2 -1/2 Maintenance %)(I would have beuraucratic buildings cost a % gold but reduce maintenance... see how that works! This would reflect the expanding need for staffing and upkeep but the effective reduction of crime/slack in society as they bring more order to the civilization.)
- City Council
- Guild Hall
- Metropolitan Administration
- Social Services
- Town Hall
- Village Hall
- Welfare Office
- Ranger Station
- State Park
- Police Station
- Insane Assylum
- Manor
- Servant's Quarter (I'd probably consider this more like a military building as its to staff government paid help that wouldn't grow far beyond the basic demand of the leader.)
- Throne Room

-Jail
-Maximum Security Prison
-Courthouse
-Chief's Hut
Possibly some of the espionage agency style buildings should be included here as well.
etc...

Should not have any maintenance as it is a private enterprise that wouldn't impact crime/slack.
- Florist

I don't know either...
- Hammam (Unsure... can't remember the purpose of the building too well...)

What do you think?

Ok, so I took liberties to adjust a bit and highlighted the suggested adustments (blue is a move from one category to another and green is a prev unmentioned building)


[quote="DH]Actually that is the bit of code I thought I fixed but what you pasted is not what my code I posted looks like. Anyway, don't worry, my fix did not work either. As far as I can tell what is happening is that somewhere we have forgotten to "provide" or "tell where" help text of some kind is for all the new improvements probably including Vincentz industry stuff. This means that someone needs to look at the C++ and try and figure out what is missing. Thunderbrd? The code is not handling a None type passed correctly. If we new where the CyInterface was looking for the help text that may help.[/quote]
I'll look into it... this is an area I'm really lost in but I'll take some time to try and sort it out. Sounds like a step was overlooked and if I can trace some of the steps taken by some of the portions that are working I might be able to figure out what was overlooked by the portions that aren't. But this might take a while to work out.


General notes on the mod so far:
1) My wife's 1 player game found that she couldn't place a city on a desert tile? Is this intentional? Tell that to a couple that lives in Vegas

2) A lot of strange little things going on... the 2 population starts for player 1 cities on a 2 player team game (it started giving 1 pop cities after a while making it even odder.)

3) Love how the Great Farmer works (I noticed in v8 but never mentioned it...) Unlike the previous animal placement, he definately seems to be unable to place where other hidden resources exist. He does take a heck of a long time to place though... about twice as long as I would suggest.

4) AI still lags after you hit classical era... we're rocketing ahead and leaving them in our dust. They tend to overbuild military which is probably something I need to look into myself.

5) Everybody is doing great work!

6) DH, we need to have a serious talk about the strength and capabilities given to various animals... Deer are 3 pts? cummon! And Penguins 2? Sheesh. I have a list of suggestions but I want to be able to include some new promotions first. That might conflict with your ideal for keeping the animals compatable with standard RoM however. So we'll discuss that at a later time.

7) Love the improved game balance, especially where military units are concerned, a nice harmony has settled in where the Thief/Rogue style units are considered. Looking forward to some of the proposed Recon unit chain adjustments and new units there.

8) The new crocs are great... static but they do look just right, rather intimidating in fact.

9) I'm sure there's more notes to come.

 

[strategyonly]

@ Dancing Hoskuld - Afforess said that having too many resources screws other things up. It makes sense that that is why the commerce isn't working in the city screen. If you can't find an answer you might look to too many resources as the culprit.

Too many resources caused the icons to change and fonts to mess up everywhere. none of that is happening. I also remember Afforess posting somewhere that he had fixed the problem.

The commerce screwing up in the city screen probably has the same cause as the Immigration mod not working correctly. I do not yet know enough to be sure and I am testing out some stuff as I go.

@StrategyOnly, one of the problems with the Immigration mod is that it uses callbacks and none have been turned on in the XML. See attached. There may be another problem but I am still struggling to understand what needs to be done.

I can't find the code for the "Animal Placement" mod new version? Is it in v9? If not can I get a copy. It may help me figure out what I need to know. Also, I may "pinch" (reuse) some of the code so subdued animals can place resources on the map.

OK but that was written in Feb 10 and in Jul 10 he wrote this:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9377650&postcount=112

Animal Placement:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20029401/AnimalPlacing_zip

Also about the Immigration mod i am completely taking it out, anything that has a PythonCallBack will be deleted from now on, takes up too much turn time.

Except that in C2C we have already passed the limit. Or am I imagining that timber and bison are working?

I was going to do a quick and dirty with the Tracker and Ranger and make their coats a different color. Both on the unit and the button but as usual whenever I do graphic stuff everything goes pink. Which is what happens whenever I try and use PakBuild, except when it decides to delete everything that is.


I have also not updated the promotions so they are only available to the hunter. Ah, hawk module defines who can carry it. I was thinking of removing the hawk completely so that was why it was in a different module. I can now merge it back in.

Do you have a FPK in the Art folder ALREADY when you try to use PakBuild? If not then put one there doesnt mean anything the first time you use it, it will change.

I agree, with your new promotions no need for Hawk.

I say again, you guys reversed Light Artillery and Artillery. In the game and ServoPedia, when you research Artillery you actually get Light Artillery, and when you research Guerrilla Warfare you get Artillery.

I think your talking about JUST the graphics, correct? Also in Guerrilla Warfare, you do get a boost to your LIGHT Artillery, thats why that is there.

 

[Talin2009]

7) Love the improved game balance, especially where military units are concerned, a nice harmony has settled in where the Thief/Rogue style units are considered. Looking forward to some of the proposed Recon unit chain adjustments and new units there.

Ambushers should be made national units like thieves-rogues, esp. taken fact they upgrade into rogues. At the time they come into play building packs of them to rape neighbours is outta balance (bringing 20 gold each kill) ...

About my previous game - 100-120 turns later i came to solid CTD (had no flashy UI - i turned off showing game era in options). Guys, i seriously think finding cause for those CTDs should be highest priority before balancing techs, bringing additional buildings etc. Will now try game on eternity speed to figure out if it will come to CTD also.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ambushers should be made national units like thieves-rogues, esp. taken fact they upgrade into rogues. At the time they come into play building packs of them to rape neighbours is outta balance (bringing 20 gold each kill) ...

About my previous game - 100-120 turns later i came to solid CTD (had no flashy UI - i turned off showing game era in options). Guys, i seriously think finding cause for those CTDs should be highest priority before balancing techs, bringing additional buildings etc. Will now try game on eternity speed to figure out if it will come to CTD also.

Have you included DH's update posted earlier to stop the Barb Civs? If not, you can probably do one of a couple workarounds that have recently been discussed, declaring war on the offending civ - or we probably have some missing graphic define somewhere... upload your save game file and we'll try to get you past the crash.

Yes... we're working on that side of things.