Civ 4 BTS - Game not recognizing my Iron

[Argothair]

I'm playing Civ IV with normal options on the Medium & Small map, and I had two working Iron mines. Genghis Khan declared war on me (despite being at +6 Diplomacy, but, whatever, he's Genghis Khan) and invaded one of my two iron-producing cities. No big deal, that's why I've got two of them, so I set gold to maximum and prepare to upgrade my huge classical armies to Knights, Macemen, and Crossbowmen -- except that the game isn't recognizing my second iron mine. You can clearly see in the screenshots that I've *got* Iron, with a Mine and a Road and plenty of road connections to my other cities, but I can't build or upgrade to any Iron-requiring unit. I was able to build Knights before the Mongols invaded, but not any more.

Any advice? Is there any in-game condition that could be stopping me from using my Iron? I've heard of spies destroying mines, but I've never seen the mine working but the resource mysteriously vanish. I checked my trade deals and I haven't traded the Iron away to anyone. If I can't fix this, it's not worth continuing the game, and honestly I'm not sure I would start another one if I can just be randomly wiped out by bugs after playing all the way to 1500 AD.

 

[AcaMetis]

It's possible to be cut off from your resources in odd ways (not the case here), Corporations and/or certain buildings can remove access to a resource (not the case here), and trading away a duplicate resource means you won't have it if your personal supply gets cut, since the game won't automatically cancel the trade in that case as you've still got a source for the trade (as you mentioned, also not the case here). There's no random events that could do this either, as far as I know. Destroy improvements, sure, but not remove access to a resource like this.

I'm at a loss for what caused this. Can you attach a copy of your save file? And I assume the answer is no, but just for the record: Are you playing with any mods?

 

[lymond]

I think we'd need a save to really be sure. I've not seen this so there must be some explanation. The only thing that comes to mind, and I can't tell from the screenshots, is the position of the units you want to upgrade. You may have iron, but if your units are in a location or city that is somehow cut-off from that iron source, then you cannot upgrade. This happens often when your units are in a captured city that is cut-off from trade routes.

Either that or your internal trade route is not complete in some way and while connected before the DOW by combinations of roads and sea routes, was then cutoff somehow once the war was declared with some sea routes being cutoff. Also, check to see if GK is blockading any ports.

You empire looks continuous from the minimap, but it is hard to tell for sure.

 

[AcaMetis]

In the second screenshot he's selected évora to try and build a Crossbow in, but the game refuses because the (roaded, mined and clearly hooked up) Iron 2E1N of the city is somehow not providing him Iron. If not him trading it away, which he says he isn't, or some bizarre mod shenanigans I've got no idea what's going on here. Definitely need a save to make sure.

 

[lymond]

Ah..I see now.. Could not tell what city it was, but see he click on just the city bar. The full city screen would let us see the resources, although obviously iron should not be present there. I wonder if his cap is blockaded.

 

[Argothair]

Thanks everyone for the fast and thoughtful replies! I do not believe my capital is blockaded, because my capital is on the opposite shore of the continent from the Mongols. I am playing the Beyond the Sword expansion, and using a custom map (I think it's called Medium & Small, after the continent sizes), but otherwise I am not using any mods.

Save file attached.

 

[Argothair]

Also, while you're poking around, I'm open to strategy advice, if any comes to mind! I've been playing at the Noble level for a few games and I usually wind up in the middle of the pack. I figure I must be doing several things suboptimally. In particular I'd like advice on how to use a Great Person economy effectively -- I find that even when I focus on farms over cottages (as I have here), I don't have enough hammers and light bulbs to spare to invent the techs and build the Great-Person-boosting wonders fast enough to get them before the other civs do. Like in this game I rushed to get Great Lighthouse and Colossus first, which worked well, and my economy has been fine as a result, but that didn't leave me any builds to get any of the Temple wonders, and I only just researched Literature a couple of turns ago (in 1500 AD). There's always so much to do! I'm usually either at war and need every unit I can scrape together, or playing infrastructure catch-up after a war and trying hard to build enough happiness and culture to stop my cities from revolting or starving.

 

[lymond]

lol...you are trading your iron to Sury

I'll give some advice here shortly..but if you really want to learn, go over to Strategy and Tips

 

[Argothair]

All right, so I am. Very embarrassing. I don't remember offering the Iron to Sury, and I normally never trade Iron to anyone as a matter of policy, and I swear I checked the trade screen and didn't see the iron icon, but I must have missed it. This whole episode gives me more sympathy for House, MD from television -- if the patient describes a situation that's medically impossible, then the patient must be lying or mistaken about something. I'm the patient!

I've read half the articles in Strategy and Tips. If you do feel like offering strategy advice, please try to keep it focused either on the questions I was asking above, or on stuff that you can see that I'm doing wrong from my save file. Thank you!

 

[lymond]

I'm going to parse out your last post as there some points I want to address specifically, but I will make an overall generaly comment: Your game is not going well at all and you should be in a far better position on this level...I say this though knowing that you have little experience with Civ IV or really learned the game...that is what we are here for

.... Noble level for a few games and I usually wind up in the middle of the pack.

We can help with that immensely in S&T

I figure I must be doing several things suboptimally.

You are doing many things suboptimally

In particular I'd like advice on how to use a Great Person economy effectively -- I find that even when I focus on farms over cottages (as I have here), I don't have enough hammers and light bulbs to spare to invent the techs and build the Great-Person-boosting wonders fast enough to get them before the other civs do.

Forget this stuff. Wipe it from your mind. I assume you read some old article or something on what we called the SE economy (Specialist Economy). First, that has largely been debunked in recent years but otherwise is a very specialized way to play that is not conducive to learning..it's quite advanced.

The common optimal/flexible and easy approach is the "hybrid" economy. To point, Great People generation is always very important and understanding how and why, but cottages are still very important and powerful. Especially the Bureau cottage cap. But ultimately, you play the land and what is best suited to it and gives you the best success. Land can obviously fluctuate quite a bit depending on maps and stuff. As you learn you will be able to handle these situations better.

Like in this game I rushed to get Great Lighthouse and Colossus first, which worked well, and my economy has been fine as a result, but that didn't leave me any builds to get any of the Temple wonders, and I only just researched Literature a couple of turns ago (in 1500 AD).

Well, GLH can be very powerful and should be strong on a Medium and Small map or any more watery map. Colossus too. Your game is late so I can't really see all the early steps you took to do this or that (well, with time I could kinda but I'm tired ..ha)

Not sure what you mean by didn't leave me any builds to get any of the temple wonders, but that sounds completely irrelevant.

Literature in 1500AD? Well, your tech pace is ..comparatively speaking..really bad here based on the benchmarks that I know..just saying. Again, seems you are harping on wonders in general here which is really not what you should be doing. Certain wonders are built based on certain conditions but just all out build wonders to build them is very suboptimal. It is really not a discussion to be having if you want to learn. The first steps most will teach you have absolutely nothing to do with wonders.

There's always so much to do! I'm usually either at war and need every unit I can scrape together, or playing infrastructure catch-up after a war and trying hard to build enough happiness and culture to stop my cities from revolting or starving.

The more you learn the more you will find out that there is not as much to do as you perceive. I mean there is always something to do, but you get better at balance and knowing when and what to build as opposed to just building everything.

"playing infrastructure catch-up " This is not a thing..ha. That concept does not exist in this game. Really there is only one required building in this game - the Granary. Everything else is situational. I realize this probably will leave you shocked, but again you will learn with more advice and eventually understand. I'm too tired to go into detail on this and it is better to learn this stuff while playing and getting advice from experts...like in a shadow game over in S&T.

happiness and culture? again, you will learn how to manage this things. I'm certain you are not using the whip effectively or at all.

 

[lymond]

Oh..and get the BUG/BULL mod here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

Install it with SP mode (Custom Assets) and you don't even have to load it..and anyone can play it or you can even us it with current games.

 

[Argothair]

All right, I assume that you're trying to be helpful, but your advice above is so general as to be almost useless to me. You're basically just saying that all of my concerns are irrelevant and that the answers to all of my questions are highly situational. That doesn't teach me anything about what to do next time. I'm sure the best strategies do depend on the exact setup of the terrain, but if you can't offer any comments at all on what to do in different types of situations, then you're not really giving advice; you're just sort of musing about how the game is complicated.

The one piece of concrete advice you're giving me is to whip more often. That's a good observation on your part. I usually don't whip at all, because I feel uncomfortable using the Slavery civic and beating my workers to death. I know Slavery is an optimal strategy, especially in the opening, but it's not fun for me to play with that concept, so I don't use it. If others enjoy it, that's fine, but that's not what I want to do. I realize that means I'm never going to be winning on Deity, but I have to imagine there's still room to improve my game without using Slavery.

I'm willing to draft units with Nationalism, but I have trouble *getting* to Nationalism because I'm spending so many resources on managing unhappiness and trying to keep my armies current and my cultural borders expanding. Are there any alternatives to Slavery that can help me make use of food surpluses? What else can I do to help compensate for not using Slavery?

 

[lymond]

Yep, you are right and I should have prefaced it as such. Let's call it more general guidance. I intentionally did not give detailed advice as a) this is not the place for it b) it's not all that beneficial to give advice on a 1500AD game and c) I was tired. I suggest starting a thread over in Strategy & Tips. A lot of helpful folks over there.

My posts above were indeed meant to be helpful, but primarily concerned with changing your perspective on the game as a newer player. I think many of us played the game before coming here developing their own ideas about how to play. I know I did. i played a year or so before finding this site some 12 years ago and did things like rush barracks with a Great Engineer..ha...and completely ignored great people and specialists for the most part.

It is indeed a complex game but there are some key concepts that really help with success in all situations. Most of these deal with the early game - the first 50 to 100 turns or so., as the early game is so important to master. Civ IV is about the snowball effect - getting off to a good start using proper yet flexible mechanics/concepts such that you can achieve anything you want later.

Slavery and whipping is the single most important/powerful mechanic in the game. Excluding this from your game is really nerfing your gameplay immensely. I don't know if it is a moral issue - I've see that on a occasion - or just the fact that you don't understand the mechanic all that well or how to manage it. If the former, well there is not much I can help you with, if the latter we can help you learn it and understand how to manage. Like understanding that cities will remain relatively small for the better part of the early to mid-game and that is okay.

I will recap a few points from my earlier post though as I do consider them important if not overly detailed advice:

1) Whipping as you mentioned
2) Granary the most important building. Everything else is situational. (The point here is that newer players tend to overbuild instead of focusing on key things like conquering or expansion - workers/settlers)
3) Great People are important and understanding how to use them.
4) Cottages are important and should not be ignored. Bureau caps are very powerful.

But there is a lot more to learn, and the best way is to start up a Shadow game over in S&T, getting advice from turn zero. Your settings are fine, but I recommend learning on Pangaea maps for now for a few reasons, one of which you have more focus on learning diplo aspects early. With that said, slavery/whipping/overflow will be part of the learning process if you are willing to learn it. No huts/events are preferred as well, can't remember if you had those turned off.

oh..and don't forget BUG