The line is extremely blurry in this particular case of a whole civilization being unavailable. Most deluxe content in other games are some sort of weapons that you will only need for a few levels to be cool and quickly become useless, extra vehicles that don't matter and such. A whole civilization cut out of the game is a no no. Yes, cut out. Music, behind the scene, figurines, extra weapons that don't last for long in the game, a bit of experience to get you boosted at the beginning, THAT is extra. A civilization that is unavalaible and can't input its personality, units, diplomacy in any of the (full length) games that I will be playing. THAT is cut out.
Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition
- Thread starter V. Soma
- Start date
The line is extremely blurry in this particular case of a whole civilization being unavailable. Most deluxe content in other games are some sort of weapons that you will only need for a few levels to be cool and quickly become useless, extra vehicles that don't matter and such. A whole civilization cut out of the game is a no no. Yes, cut out. Music, behind the scene, figurines, extra weapons that don't last for long in the game, a bit of experience to get you boosted at the beginning, THAT is extra. A civilization that is unavalaible and can't input its personality, units, diplomacy in any of the (full length) games that I will be playing. THAT is cut out.
Eejit
Chieftain
I think if you only ever run steam in offline mode after installing?
Do you honestly expect me to buy that Babylon is just "bonus"? An extra? Like I said, an extra for a game to me is something that A) is of good, tangible value, and B) doesn't actually touch the game itself.
Let me ask you this from another perspective: what is preventing Babylon from being added to the regular experience? Why does it need to be an extra? It's going to be available day 1, no? And I believe its data is going to be included with the regular experience as well so that players can see it while online, so it won't be because including Babylon will skyrocket the bandwidth costs or something.
Seriously, how stupid do you think we are? Let's just be honest for a change. The only reason why you'd leave a classic Civ out of the game, is because you realise that many people are going to pay those extra 10 bucks to get it. It's not some weird Alien civilization, its Babylon. And I understand why your doing this, because after all, it's all about money. But it doesn't cost anything to be honest.
And is ridicolous to claim that this Steam garbage was implemented because so many players wanted it.
It's all about money. But I think you're doing a huge mistake on this one.
deanej
Deity
Is the deluxe edition going to be limited? Such things usually are, and I don't like the idea that game content is only available to those that buy at release. I'm also concerned about the modding implications. What if a mod needs to use Babylon? For example, is Rhye just going to have to make RFC without Babylon for civ5 because of this?
Honestly, I don't 2K's Elizabeth should be treated poorly. She is just doing her job and everyone knows that.
Speaking of honesty: Those, masking as customers (not revealing their affiliation with companies), are the ones you need to watch out for.
Speaking of honesty: Those, masking as customers (not revealing their affiliation with companies), are the ones you need to watch out for.
Could someone please explain what Steam is? Why it could be mandatory/optional? What it would mean for online and extra stuff on my computer? How will it affect modding and ease of use? (I have a hard time loading mods as it is). Civ is the only computer game I ever play.
On a personal note, I don't really care if things are packaged and sold in different sets. Would I prefer that that each game come with 50 civilizations and every imaginable world map? Yes. However, that isn't realistic as 2K is out to make a profit. If they weren't then we wouldn't have even had Civ I. I enjoy the game and a difference of $10 in price for the equivalent of an early expansion doesn't really bother me as it makes good business sense. The likelihood of anyone who cares enough to write on these boards not buying the game is fairly low.
On a personal note, I don't really care if things are packaged and sold in different sets. Would I prefer that that each game come with 50 civilizations and every imaginable world map? Yes. However, that isn't realistic as 2K is out to make a profit. If they weren't then we wouldn't have even had Civ I. I enjoy the game and a difference of $10 in price for the equivalent of an early expansion doesn't really bother me as it makes good business sense. The likelihood of anyone who cares enough to write on these boards not buying the game is fairly low.
lol, limited freebie 10 extra bucks for the companies involved? Right. I wouldn't worry about that.
Except it's not an early expansion at all.
EDIT: If you're ready to pay 10$ for the content of this "expansion", you should have been ready to pay like 150-200$ for Beyond the Sword.
Ulyaoth
Emperor
Exactly. Unless this bonus crap is done away with, I will not buy any more civilization anything.
salaminizer
Colorado Internacional
if I play someone in multiplayer, and this someone has bought the deluxe edition and uses Babylon, can we play together if I only have the standard edition?
501st Legion
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 107
While I'm fine with this, the moment the developers/publishers have decided to make it a "Steam is needed game", they instantly lost some of their loyal customers who have a bad internet connection or who have internet at all.
On the most part I'm fine with Steam, but I don't like the fact that when you are downloading a patch for a "Steamworks only" you can't play the game while downloading a patch - not unless I download the patch on some torrent site.
And the one thing I'm worried about Civ V being "Steamworks only" is this - paid downloadable content (PDLC) or downloadable content that ain't free. I don't want to see Cossacks, Praetorian Guards, Musketeers of the Guard being sold for $3.25 a piece [2K/Firaxis don't you guys dare do this...
]. Heck, I don't want PDLC for Civ V. I had to put up with it with Total War and I don't want to deal with that crap all over again in Civ V; one franchise that didn't have PDLC but eventually got such is too much already. I can understand it if the "deluxe edition" has posters, making of documentaries, soundtrack, a cool looking box and manual - but why on earth make a faction that was present in the series since day one "extra" other than for a shameless money grab. The underlying principle behind it is just simply disgusting. I really hope that this PDLC bullcrap for Civ V will go no further than this "Babylon is extra" nonsense.Quick question - is there a retail/boxed (non digital) version of the deluxe edition?
evrett37
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 346
"players will enjoy the benefits of the Steamworks�' features included in all PC versions"
I read this as using the multiplayer portal will require Steam as will auto-updating whether you buy the Steam version or not.
I'd really like to know what Firaxis was thinking not handholding this announcement more..I mean its not like it would be hard to predict how the community would react to this. I'm guessing since common sense questions like "is steam required for x,y,z" havnt been addressed out of the gate they prob arnt answers we are going to like.
I know I'm not putting it on my computer with steam included. I gave it a try once and got burned.
I read this as using the multiplayer portal will require Steam as will auto-updating whether you buy the Steam version or not.
I'd really like to know what Firaxis was thinking not handholding this announcement more..I mean its not like it would be hard to predict how the community would react to this. I'm guessing since common sense questions like "is steam required for x,y,z" havnt been addressed out of the gate they prob arnt answers we are going to like.
I know I'm not putting it on my computer with steam included. I gave it a try once and got burned.
tiberion02
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 73
Just curious, but how many of you railing against steam actually use it at all?
I've used it. As I've said, I see the potential that a game I buy may one day be unusable because the program can't phone home as enough of a value killer that I'll only buy games like that for a very small amount of money.
Thus, I have lots of games on Steam that cost me less than $10, and none at all (save Half Life 2, which I purchased before I understood the DRM) for more than that.
My complaint is that DRM like this treats me -- a paying customer -- like a suspected criminal. I'm not okay with that. I understand that it doesn't bother other people, but I will take my money elsewhere. The entertainment I derive from Civ, which is enormous, isn't worth doing business with companies that refuse to treat me like a customer instead of a pirate.
Steam offers me nothing whatsoever. I don't care about matchmaking, or forums. I actually hate achievements and wish they were never invented. And I couldn't care less about saving my game to faraway computers and loading them on different machines. Thus, the only thing I get out of my Steam purchases is the chance that they won't work in the future, and the feeling that the company doesn't trust me.
Phone home DRM is literally the only thing that could have prevented me from buying Civ 5 on day 1 for full price. That's how loyal I was to the series, and to Firaxis. But that's gone now. I am sure everyone will make plenty of money without my $60. But I hope that sometime down the line the big PC game companies will start treating me like a customer again instead of a threat.
In the meantime, I'm looking for Stardock, indie games, and books.
Thus, I have lots of games on Steam that cost me less than $10, and none at all (save Half Life 2, which I purchased before I understood the DRM) for more than that.
My complaint is that DRM like this treats me -- a paying customer -- like a suspected criminal. I'm not okay with that. I understand that it doesn't bother other people, but I will take my money elsewhere. The entertainment I derive from Civ, which is enormous, isn't worth doing business with companies that refuse to treat me like a customer instead of a pirate.
Steam offers me nothing whatsoever. I don't care about matchmaking, or forums. I actually hate achievements and wish they were never invented. And I couldn't care less about saving my game to faraway computers and loading them on different machines. Thus, the only thing I get out of my Steam purchases is the chance that they won't work in the future, and the feeling that the company doesn't trust me.
Phone home DRM is literally the only thing that could have prevented me from buying Civ 5 on day 1 for full price. That's how loyal I was to the series, and to Firaxis. But that's gone now. I am sure everyone will make plenty of money without my $60. But I hope that sometime down the line the big PC game companies will start treating me like a customer again instead of a threat.
In the meantime, I'm looking for Stardock, indie games, and books.
Toni1
Warlord
I don't and never will as long as steam client is mandatory part of the purchase, installation and playing process. If they remove it or make it optional/multiplayer activating only, I might reconsider. GamersGate and GOG.com are the only DD services I use (well I do have two games in impulse but only thing they did was convince me never to buy anything else from there).
The problem is that I don't want or need Steam for anything. The vast majority of Civ players play the game single player. I totally understand wanting to use the Steam system for multiplayer.
But DON'T insult the single player people, which are the core fans of the game, by requiring it to be installed for single player only. I'm not against Steam specifically, but forcing me to install any 3rd part software just to play the game, a single player game, is just wrong.
Make Steamworks *optional* to install if you want to play multiplayer or you care about achievements and stuff. There is NOTHING that Steam gives me to make my single player experience "better". Nothing. Don't make me install it.
If you do then you have lost a loyal customer of yours going back two decades. And many more like me. Seriously, I will not buy this game if you force Steam *or any other 3rd party software for that matter* on me.
