Well I hope so, but doing so could undermine the DLCs, which we don't expect 2k to do. It's hard to rectify being able to use modified DLC content in mods, with not being able to redistribute DLC content unmodified and by itself.
Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ
- Thread starter 2K Greg
- Start date
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,601
Actually, I'm right! I am in a Steam based beta right now, and due to problems with recent builds I have turned off updating for that game. HOWEVER, Steam is still in ONLINE mode. Now the beta is three builds behind, but I'm ONLINE and not updating that build till they send out one that works.
Trust me, I have been in this beta for over a year, and that's how I've been doing it for a year.
EDIT: And I didn't ask a question so you're last sentence is nonsense.
It's not obvious to me. But perhaps I have missed something Greg previously said. Greg's been very reluctant to say anything about mods or DLC.
moopoo
King
This is completely incorrect. I can guarantee 100% that if that option is set to "do not update", then it will not update, regardless if you're online or not.
My experience with the Total War series has been that if you are online you can't play without the update. I was locked out of Napoleon for a month
When my brother and I have logged on at the same time, we've both been able to keep playing, but that's far from a guarantee.
First of all, it's not known that DLCs will be protected.And I explained why that is a corporate half-truth.
If Steam has nothing to do with mods then can I purchase a bunch of Civ5 DLC game mods (on Steam of course) and pass them out to everyone? No? Well why not? What's stopping me you might ask? STEAM DRM!
Second, if it is protected, steam code does not have to be what's doing it.
Third, however or whoever protects the DLC, scanning of mods for DLC content is pretty effectively ruled out. Current steam software does not have this capability (except possibly as part of VAC), and they would not have made any special code for Civ 5's sake. Also, it would qualify as other information collected by steam.
He also didnt answer about the DLC/multiplayer interaction, even if it has been asked like 50 times.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
First of all, can we really expect DLC (paid content) to not be protected?
Second, please refer to the original post. The comment under consideration was 12agnar0k screaming "STEAM WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MODS". I didn't say Steam code, you did. Please see my posts above for many specific examples of Steam having something (lots actually) to do with mods.
Third, that's what I was asking for was confirmation of your comments from an official source. Why won't 2K Greg confirm this and thus put the issue to rest? If we could get 2K Greg to tell us that the Steam DRM doesn't care if we modify existing content that we are in legal possession of like we could in Civ4 then that would be the end of it. Instead of answering the question he told us:
Till
Adventurer
I play lots of games through Steam and never had any issues with modding. This goes from adding new content to editing existing files, including the executable. I guess i could audit steam's filesystem access to be absolutely sure, but i have no reason to think that Steam enforces file integrity in any way, unless VAC is enabled.
Thanks for the Q&A Greg.
Valve sells certain data they collect. As they don't give full details in their T&C whats for them to not collate the crash reports and turn it into something marketable?? Be nice if you could opt out of them selling it. I not mind steam collecting data to use to make their service better nor passing said info about specific game usage to the game developer in this case would be 2K.
Other than the privacy issue, I am just waiting on Computer Specs. Then will decide on yeh or nay.
If steam stops the game cause of moding, as someone was concerned about. I have every faith in 2K to find a solution to it if it does occure.
Valve sells certain data they collect. As they don't give full details in their T&C whats for them to not collate the crash reports and turn it into something marketable?? Be nice if you could opt out of them selling it. I not mind steam collecting data to use to make their service better nor passing said info about specific game usage to the game developer in this case would be 2K.
Other than the privacy issue, I am just waiting on Computer Specs. Then will decide on yeh or nay.
If steam stops the game cause of moding, as someone was concerned about. I have every faith in 2K to find a solution to it if it does occure.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Thanks for taking the time to post your experience. Hearing this from a long-time trusted source such as yourself goes a long way toward calming my concerns.
I always mod tiny game details, often mid-game. For me that's part of the fun and I would really miss being able to tinker with the game at will.
I think I might be talking to a brick wall here, but I will try anyway.
Look, DLC & Mod's are not the same process, even if you can describe what they do as both "modifying" your game, thus the end result being a modification to your game in both cases. Mod's are free modifications that will be available in the mod browser, DLC are paid modifications that are available in the Steam store. This is the key difference, Steam will have nothing to do with the mod browser and all the mods it includes inside, including a mod which is a copy of a DLC "mod". Thus Steam HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MODS. or "mod's from the mod browser" if you want to be specific on the meaning of the word mod.
Just because you "can" define DLC as a "mod" of sorts, doesn't change the fact that "Steam has nothing to do with mods" statement is correct, perhaps it needs to be clarified simply to say "Steam has nothing to do with mods from the mod browser". This is what Greg was reffering too, redifining something else and then claiming that Greg was wrong all along and thus invalidating his previous statement about the other type of mods has no basis in reality.
Steam may however act as a DRM stopping you from outright copying any Steam files, this is its job, it won't however scan your game for Mod's from the mod browser that are copies of DLC, as stated it has nothing to do with the Mod browser, thats not to say such "DLC copies" will be allowed to exist very long in the mod browser if they are modded by someone, but whom ever said "moderator" of the mod browser is, it won't be Steam.
Perhaps I have broken the through the bricks on your wall to your logical thought processes, perhaps I have failed, I will endevor to use a bigger hammer next time if thats the case.
As for "I didn't realise you were the forum mod", well Greg isn't a mod as far as i'm aware, and you don't have to be a mod, or in an offical position at 2k to have knowledge. I have knowledge and I'm trying to pass it along to you, but obviously you are one of those people who can't be taught knowledge, or perhaps you are, time will tell.
In the FAQ itself it states "LAN will be available in offline mode". Now as others have said, you can have an unlimited number of computers logged into "offline" mode on the same account, so will you be able to have 5 (or two in your case) computers all in Steam offline mode using the same account playing LAN together, yes. This is good for you and others who like you dont want to purchase more than one copy but still use it as if you did do this. Personally I would have prefered they limit LAN mode to "online" mode to remove this "loop hole" where you can avoid buying more than 1 copy for you/yourfamily/allyourfriends and so on. However if they did, they would have removed the few cases where several people want to play LAN together genuinely each with thier own account but somewhere where with no internet access.
The whole "using multiple offline versions of the same account" is against Steam EULA policy, so don't advertise the fact you are doing it to Steam or they will likely ban your account which will lose you your game.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Wrong again.
I already posted this link and information but I guess you didn't read it.
Mod (computer gaming):
It makes no difference who creates the content or how it is distributed, free or paid. The content itself is what makes it a mod.
That was the question and seems to be the consensus answer. If 2K Greg had simply and clearly confirmed this fact then this discussion wouldn't be happening.
Perhaps you will get your definitions correct before pretending to be an expert and lecturing others.
But you acted like a forum mod. You said to "stop this right now" - which isn't yours to tell if you are only a regular forum member. The real forum moderators may take issue with you telling people to stop posting their opinions on the forum though.
If you have something correct to teach, I'll be glad to learn. But when you don't know what a mod is then I may not be so eager to listen to your opinion about how Steam interacts with mods.
The question now is if you will learn. Here's the Wikipedia link again for your learning pleasure.
Moderator Action: The sniping at each other will end right now.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Sahkuhnder, while your definitions may be correct, I don't see them as being the common understanding around here of what mods are. I mean, you don't call the developers modders do you? Even the official mods were still vastly different to the core game, and in the expansions the mods were mostly fan made but just officially released. When you insert extra official content into the game like civs or maps, and you are the developer, I don't believe it makes what you produced automatically a mod.
Whatever the case though, arguing about definitions I fear will drag you away from the point that you're actually intending to discuss and I can only assume that's something you're not wishing to do.
Whatever the case though, arguing about definitions I fear will drag you away from the point that you're actually intending to discuss and I can only assume that's something you're not wishing to do.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Fair enough, and all I ever wanted was for someone official to finally give a straight answer for a change. I can't be the only person frustrated by the lack of information.
If Till says he uses Steam and never had an issue modding then that's good enough of an answer for me and I'll consider this question closed.
Still waiting for an answer to this question though.
White Elk
99 > 1
I guess this has become the officially sanctioned, catch all thread for steam related discussion?
Looking back into my posting history; I was surprised to find a steam realted post I made back in 2007. I'd forgotten about that. But I hadn't forgoten my bad experiances with a forced client and auto-updates for EA's BF2....
My experiances with rampant auto-updaters, forced install of unwanted software, and having lost ownership of digital media because of upgrading my PC... gives me solid reason to think twice before considering a scheme like steam. More power to those that like the steam model. I take nothing from you by having my own opinion. It's just not for me. I've had my fill of that sorta thing.
Looking back into my posting history; I was surprised to find a steam realted post I made back in 2007. I'd forgotten about that. But I hadn't forgoten my bad experiances with a forced client and auto-updates for EA's BF2....
My experiances with rampant auto-updaters, forced install of unwanted software, and having lost ownership of digital media because of upgrading my PC... gives me solid reason to think twice before considering a scheme like steam. More power to those that like the steam model. I take nothing from you by having my own opinion. It's just not for me. I've had my fill of that sorta thing.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
2K released their FAQ, they are probably done forever. Maybe he'll go above and beyond the call of duty and answer the questions he should have before but didn't.
I'm sure they will protect DLC somehow, either through some type of special encryption or something, so no one can access it's data. And since Steam knows if you have purchased it or not, you can't use it without it being verified. Probably something like this I would guess.
I'm sure they will protect DLC somehow, either through some type of special encryption or something, so no one can access it's data. And since Steam knows if you have purchased it or not, you can't use it without it being verified. Probably something like this I would guess.
Koolhan
Chieftain
I believe it depends on the game and how integrated it is with Steam. For instance a game like Team Fortress 2 absolutely must be updated in order to play it at all. It's a multiplayer only game however, so there's that. Some other games that I've had over Steam have required updates, but some have not. Since Civ5 is integrated with Steamworks, then it may very well be that we must update it to play, which I'm fine with btw.
Okay demolition is harder than I thought, I might have to pull out the jackhammer of wording.
Okay now while you may very well define DLC and Mods as both "modifications to the game" thats fine, technically it can be defined as such, what you fail to realise is the context in which Greg used the term mod. He didn't use it to refer to DLC. When he says "mod" he is referring to all the "mod's" in the "mod browser" and not the "DLC store". This is something your just not grasping, so when he says "Steam will not have any affect on Mods" he is refferring to the Mod browser and not the DLC. As Greg and many other people, categorise DLC and Mod's seperatly into the two just mentioned headings (the first being paid for modifications not in the core game, the second being free modifications not in the core game, thier is a third type of modification which is "patches" which is free modifications in the core game.) they are used and talked about as if they are seperate things, even if you can summarise their definitions to mean the same thing, they are seperated for easier benefit.
So to re-iterate, when Greg says "Steam has nothing to do with mods" he is talking about the Mod Browser and all within, not the DLC which is an entirely seperate function for Civ5 which is tied in with Steam as you buy the DLC from the Steam store.
Okay hopefully I have destroyed the wall of communication between us or atleast loosend some bricks or I hope I atleast chipped one. Alas all I can do is hope that you now understand what I am saying.
P.s you don't have to be a moderaor to know that asking the same questions repeatedly that have been answered taking up lots of forumn space will reduce the time Greg spends reading and answering questions that people actually need answers too. Also asking someone to do something does not require you to be a mod, I didnt say you have to
.
P.S.S Alas also he did give the answer you seek, it is just you who fails to see it. Getting hung up on the definition of "Mod" instead of learning his language and understanding, which is what I am attempting to teach you, but a good student you aren't, you make it quite hard on this old teacher, telling me I can't teach, its not nice, I nearly was brought to tears.
Okay now while you may very well define DLC and Mods as both "modifications to the game" thats fine, technically it can be defined as such, what you fail to realise is the context in which Greg used the term mod. He didn't use it to refer to DLC. When he says "mod" he is referring to all the "mod's" in the "mod browser" and not the "DLC store". This is something your just not grasping, so when he says "Steam will not have any affect on Mods" he is refferring to the Mod browser and not the DLC. As Greg and many other people, categorise DLC and Mod's seperatly into the two just mentioned headings (the first being paid for modifications not in the core game, the second being free modifications not in the core game, thier is a third type of modification which is "patches" which is free modifications in the core game.) they are used and talked about as if they are seperate things, even if you can summarise their definitions to mean the same thing, they are seperated for easier benefit.
So to re-iterate, when Greg says "Steam has nothing to do with mods" he is talking about the Mod Browser and all within, not the DLC which is an entirely seperate function for Civ5 which is tied in with Steam as you buy the DLC from the Steam store.
Okay hopefully I have destroyed the wall of communication between us or atleast loosend some bricks or I hope I atleast chipped one. Alas all I can do is hope that you now understand what I am saying.
P.s you don't have to be a moderaor to know that asking the same questions repeatedly that have been answered taking up lots of forumn space will reduce the time Greg spends reading and answering questions that people actually need answers too. Also asking someone to do something does not require you to be a mod, I didnt say you have to
. P.S.S Alas also he did give the answer you seek, it is just you who fails to see it. Getting hung up on the definition of "Mod" instead of learning his language and understanding, which is what I am attempting to teach you, but a good student you aren't, you make it quite hard on this old teacher, telling me I can't teach, its not nice, I nearly was brought to tears.
No.
Mods are modifications, period.
2K's understanding seems to be that they are user-made modifications, with which I'm fine.
However, mods can be available in the mod browser or not. For instance, they can be downloaded from this site. Firaxis said that the 'old' way of hosting mods would still exist. Mods can also be modifications you create on your computer and just use for yourself and never upload anywhere.
For these reasons, Steam wouldn't even know you have such mods on your machine unless it actively seeks them out.
As for mods hosted and available through Steam, they'll probably be checked by 2KGreg or someone from 2K or maybe Firaxis, and this check may be what hinders redistributing DLC material if it's not technically hampered(through encryption for instance)
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