Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

[Senethro]

My Valve account has not been cancelled. I can still play the other games (if I wanted too). The problem is they want a digital picture, via scanner or digital camera, to allow access to the game. My problem is, I do not have this device. Their e-mails have been quite terse: " Unfortunately we will need to see the quick reference card to assist you with this issue. Please ask a friend or family member if you can borrow a camera or scanner. If you we cannot borrow one, please go to your local copy shop and they can scan the card for you." I would have to drive quite a distance to comply with this. If I had known I would have to purchase another gadget, I would have included this in the cost of the game. They need to let you know if they require this on the packaging label. I have the activation code and put it in, but they won't accept it. (Yes, I kept all their e-mails for posterity sake)

My best guess is that someone has seen your activation card and registered your game on their account, or that the first time you installed you used a different Steam account. You are using the same Steam account, yes? You didn't re-register or something? No emails from long ago with your account details just to be sure? Alternatively, have you moved continents or countries between then and now?

 

[The_Coyote]

To make this easier on me, please refrain from trying to answer other people's questions or start discussions about things other people have posted. I would like this thread to be mainly just a list of questions and concerns. The exception is if a question has specifically been addressed by 2K/Firaxis (such as a post by 2K Elizabeth,) in which case feel free to link to the post containing the answer.

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[laserburn]

Um no, OS X IS Unix, Linux is not, On the other hand a port to BSD wouldn't be very hard

None the less, porting games from Mac OS to Linux is very easy as long as the game uses OpenGL engine, they just need to recompile their application against different libraries and windowing system, the core remains the same.

I would be satisfied even if this game would work well in Wine, but native Linux client would be even better. Civ 4 worked well in Wine, but expansions didn't because their installer also tried to install the latest DirectX.

 

[gmbfly98]

Um no, OS X IS Unix, Linux is not, On the other hand a port to BSD wouldn't be very hard

I know this is off-topic, but...

The whole "unix" vs" Unix" argument has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is to port the game to OS X or Linux, or whatever-isn't-Windows. It does make it a little easier now that Macs run on x86 hardware like Windows machines, but there are still fundamental differences in how the two OSes work. One of the biggest differences is the graphics subsystem, and that alone would require almost a complete rewrite (DirectX vs presumably OpenGL). Also different is how the OSes handle files and permissions, and even though OS X is BSD-based, it has its own Apple-specific APIs. You also have to take into account that they are probably coding the game for speed, rather than portability, which would mean taking advantage of Windows-specific APIs.

The point being, OS X is just as different from Linux as it is from Windows, and any port of Civ 5 would take some time.

 

[nokmirt]

Can you chose to buy a version without steam? I have been playing this game since civ 2. I never had to be online. Why did steam have to get involved with civ, it's the only video game I would even consider buying, because all these others are steam based.

I did read there are two editions, thank god! I think that's great because the problem is that if it's steam based you cannot make the choice, you have no choice but to use steam. I am glad the creators of civ realized this. They realize it can drastically hurt their sales. When is the release date in stores? Has it been announced? If I decide to use steam at some point, I want that to be my choice, not theirs. Thank the stars I still don't have to play with steam. Otherwise, myself and a whole slew of people will have Civ 4 be the last civ.

I am surprised at the amount of hate steam gets...

I rather enjoy not having to go into a store and buy a game and have all the waste that comes along with buying a game. Box, manual etc which I do not need.

I share my steam account with my brother who also buys games and this allows us to share the games without having to meet up give each other CDs.

And really how do you not have internet in 2010?

That's not the point. The point is I have never played the game online, and I like to have a game box. If I never played online, why would I want to now? It makes no sense. I am for sure I am not even remotely close to being the only one. You should not need the internet to play civ, I only use the net for modding, but I play off line. Steam just hems you up. They have hurt sales on several games, steam should be discontinued. It's a waste of time. Sorry but that's mine and alot of people's opinion.

Heh. I'm in the process of building a new, full-on Intel Core i7 machine to celebrate my retirement. I, too, was looking forward to playing Civ V with every last option lit up on any size map. I'll just have to console myself with playing Civ IV with every last option, etc. It could be worse.

Kind of disappointing though; I've been playing Civ since it came out in 1991.

I feel the same way guys. They are going to lose a ton of money. Civ 4 is the last, too bad. I thought they would be smart enough for two editions. Corporations will be the downfall of America!

 

[3 EMS]

@ nokmirt: It does not matter if you buy a disc from a store or download the game from steam. You will have to install steams's software and run it to play. You can go offline for three weeks at a time but you will have to reconnect and update to go back offline. I believe you can unplug the internet to stay off line longer. That may be a bug from what I've been reading.

 

[Zorag]

Pfew... finally read through most of the thread and I must say, Greg you are one though nut. I don't know if I would have survived the constant pounding of this angry primitive man which we call a civ gamer. So, my respect for keeping your cool under fire.

The issues which I would like to put forward have been addressed tangentially several times, but I want to make sure they are taken into account.

The most serious situation with this whole steamworks business is, in my opinion, that there will be two different versions of the game out there. This creates modding and multiplayer issues that I would much rather not see. The question is simple, how will multiplayer handle the different versions.

Will the deluxe version owner not have access to Babylon when playing a multiplayer game?

And second, will Babylon civ mods be prohibited or restricted?

Best regards,
Radu

 

[Rebel44]

@ nokmirt: It does not matter if you buy a disc from a store or download the game from steam. You will have to install steams's software and run it to play. You can go offline for three weeks at a time but you will have to reconnect and update to go back offline. I believe you can unplug the internet to stay off line longer. That may be a bug from what I've been reading.

Offline mode isnt time limited. My notebook was in offline mode for months without problem. I also know few people who went to Iraq for 6+ months and they also didnt have any problem with offline mode.

 

[Zorag]

I'd like to bring in this thread an issue from the 2k civ5 forum, which seems relevant and interesting to discuss.

Will we be able to resell civ5 after we've played it?

The thread I am referring to is this: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72630

The discussion has gone of course at some points but the main issue seems reasonable and important to me as a potential buyer. I want to know that in 10 years time when civ5 hard copies are worth a gazzilion dollars, I will be able to resell it and live the remaining days of my life on my very own island in the middle of the Pacific.

Best regards,
Radu

 

[Nick Danger]

In other words, Steam doesn't even ask for any personally identifiable information.

You may wish to review Valve's Privacy Policy where it states it does collect -- in their own words -- "personally identifiable information".

From that link:
""Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user...". (emphasis mine).

Note the incomplete and open-ended definition, and that Elizabeth 2k was unable to provide a link/etc. for this, even though she said that information was public.

Regarding privacy of personally identifiable information:
"...Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy..."

However this isn't always the case:

"Personally identifiable information protected under this privacy policy and collected from users may be done in conjunction with associates under agreement with Valve... Valve's privacy policy does not extend to associates of Valve."

So Valve does collect personally identifiable information, they don't specify exactly what personally identifiable information they collect other than the obvious unobjectionable bits, they share said personally identifiable information with both third parties and associates, and the latter aren't bound by Valve's privacy policy.

Some idea of the unspecified personally identifiable information collected and shared is possible by perusing Valve's Steamworks API Overview page.

The API overview page also gives an idea as to what things steam/steamworks is doing while running in the background.

Remember that while you don't need to be online to play a single-player offline Civ5 game, you do need to have steam/steamworks running in the background while playing a single-player offline Civ5 game.

One thing that's running is VAC (valve's anti-cheat):
"VAC is a component of Steamworks and the Steam client, and works by scanning the users system for cheats while your game is running. It works a lot like a virus scanner, and has a database of known cheats to detect."

So for those of you who are cheating yourself while playing a single-player offline Civ5 game -- you're busted! That'll teach you to play with your cheating self...

Seriously, how is having an unnecessary virus scanner-like anti-cheat service constantly running in the background, for a single-player offline game when cheating is not an issue, a 'benefit'?

That's merely 1 example of why having the unnecessary steam/steamworks running in the background is not desired by some of us, and why steam should be a choice and not forced upon us.

Folks who want steam should have that choice. Those of us who don't want steam want that choice as well.

Steam is presented as a benefit to players, but it's more than that. Yes, it benefits some players, but it's a double-edged sword and that part is being glossed over in the attempt to sell us on steam's benefits to us.

Reality is that what's most important is that forced steam benefits steam and 2k and firaxis. Take-Two's (Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc NASDAQ: TTWO) first and foremost obligation is to their stockholders, not customers.

 

[3 EMS]

Offline mode isnt time limited. My notebook was in offline mode for months without problem. I also know few people who went to Iraq for 6+ months and they also didnt have any problem with offline mode.

Unless you are connected to the internet.

 

[nokmirt]

Well, I wil be offline as much as pssible, while playing. They still should have made a standalone non-steam version. For peple who don't like or use steam!

 

[Rebel44]

Well, I wil be offline as much as pssible, while playing. They still should have made a standalone non-steam version. For peple who don't like or use steam!

That would negate benefits of using Steamworks, so they would have to spend more time and money on development. And after rlease they would have to support 2 always different versions, create separate pathes for those versions etc.

 

[Rebel44]

I'd like to bring in this thread an issue from the 2k civ5 forum, which seems relevant and interesting to discuss.

Will we be able to resell civ5 after we've played it?

The thread I am referring to is this: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72630

The discussion has gone of course at some points but the main issue seems reasonable and important to me as a potential buyer. I want to know that in 10 years time when civ5 hard copies are worth a gazzilion dollars, I will be able to resell it and live the remaining days of my life on my very own island in the middle of the Pacific.

Best regards,
Radu

No, you cant sell games in your Steam account. You can try to sell entire account, but because its against EULA if you get caught your account would be terminated.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Guys can we please refrain from answering questions unless you can provide a link to an official source? The questions here are addressed to 2K Greg.

 

[bonscott]

2K Greg,

My problem with Steam is simply this: Being forced to install, use and run something I do not need or want since this is a single player only game for me (and most people).

If there was a onetime activation of the game via Steam and then I can ignore Steam/uninstall it I have no problem with that DRM scheme.

But Steamworks running all the time despite my never needing or using it is the problem. A lot of people here have brought up how terrible GFWL is. That may be. BUT in games that have used it like Fallout 3...I never used it once. Never logged into it and never had an account on it (still don't). BUT I was not prevented from playing Fallout 3 despite this. Same goes for many Stardock games or a game like Sins of a Solar Empire. I can totally ignore Impulse and in fact never install it if I don't want to and still play and enjoy the games like the olden days.

I've bought every version of Civ back to Civ 1 nearly 20 yrs ago. I can still pull out my floppies of Civ 1 or 2 and install and play them. So when Steam/Valve no longer exists 10-15 yrs from now, will I be able to play Civ 5? Very doubtful. And that's a shame. This may not be an issue for all the kiddie FPS out there that get tossed aside within 2 yrs never to be played again, but a game like Civ is very different.
I will refuse to buy Civ 5 (and any other game like Fallout: NV) that forces Steam/Steamworks on me for no reason.

 

[nokmirt]

2K Greg,

My problem with Steam is simply this: Being forced to install, use and run something I do not need or want since this is a single player only game for me (and most people).

If there was a onetime activation of the game via Steam and then I can ignore Steam/uninstall it I have no problem with that DRM scheme.

But Steamworks running all the time despite my never needing or using it is the problem. A lot of people here have brought up how terrible GFWL is. That may be. BUT in games that have used it like Fallout 3...I never used it once. Never logged into it and never had an account on it (still don't). BUT I was not prevented from playing Fallout 3 despite this. Same goes for many Stardock games or a game like Sins of a Solar Empire. I can totally ignore Impulse and in fact never install it if I don't want to and still play and enjoy the games like the olden days.

I've bought every version of Civ back to Civ 1 nearly 20 yrs ago. I can still pull out my floppies of Civ 1 or 2 and install and play them. So when Steam/Valve no longer exists 10-15 yrs from now, will I be able to play Civ 5? Very doubtful. And that's a shame. This may not be an issue for all the kiddie FPS out there that get tossed aside within 2 yrs never to be played again, but a game like Civ is very different.
I will refuse to buy Civ 5 (and any other game like Fallout: NV) that forces Steam/Steamworks on me for no reason.

I agree with this, and it's the best way to put things in perspective. Let me tell you something 2K Greg, I love the civ series, have as far as I can remember. Why change to steam now, we have not needed it for all these years. What gives?

That would negate benefits of using Steamworks, so they would have to spend more time and money on development. And after rlease they would have to support 2 always different versions, create separate pathes for those versions etc.

I did not need steamworks for civ 4, so why should for civ 5? I just want a game disc, and civfanatics forums. That's all I need. I am not saying steam is bad, I have heard otherwise. I just don't feel there needs to be a change just yet. Perhaps I am wrong, but I just am more comfortable with the way things are.

 

[ZPV]

1. I get the feeling, from some posts in this thread, that some people believe there is a clear distinction in terms of end-user features, where some of them contact steam outside the CivV application, and the rest don't. However, I think this is probably a misconception, where in reality Steam also handles something very important, like directing internal messages between different threads, or something else crucial to the game engine. Could you clarify this, please?

2. Patches for Civ4 have been known to contain a bug or two, and the community has come up with unofficial patches fixing them very quickly indeed. Will this still be possible with Steam? Would MP be possible with an unofficial patch?

 

[Tylerryan79]

Do modding tools and the map editor require steam to run?

 

[tom2050]

With all the massive amount of time, money, and resources that Firaxis and 2K have saved on using Steamworks, will this mean that all this huge mass of additional time and resources will be spent on actually developing the game further?

So, will there be something new with the tech tree? Or is the tech tree that was shown (which looks identical to previous civ) the final draft?

Will diplomacy model be greatly improved? Being able to develop actual relationships with other countries, so you can have nations that you can actually trust, and have enemy states as well... with realistic relationships that may gradually change over the course of the game? Or is it true that the diplo model will just resemble previous civ versions?

Was all the huge resources saved from Steam spent solely on the graphics, combat model, and social policies? Was the rest of the game largely kept somewhat similar?

------------

I suppose the question is, what was done in addition with the massive amount of time, money and resources saved by using Steam, that would otherwise not have been accomplished?
[ It has been constantly stated Steamworks has saved the company massive amount of time and resources, so this should be a very easy question to answer with specifics ]