Civilization elimination thread

America 16
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 23
Denmark 9
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 19
France 20
Greece 26
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 16
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 9
Sweden 19

Spain: To situational for my taste, I hate gambles.
Korea: Imho a great all-around CIV. Small or big, science or culture or military playstyle, the UA provides indirect help for everything. And settling GPs is cool. :)
 
Bakspatel - on Immortal and Deity the AI has a bunch of units, a few scouts, extra workers and 1-2 settlers. While I love exploring, that setup simply makes your exploration dreams crumble to dust, as the AI will get to 95% of the wonders first - you may luck out with 1, or maybe 2, but only if they are in your vicinity. Having GBR spawn around you should be godly, but that happens less than 2% of the time.

This was my reason of giving Spain my thumbs down.
 
America 16
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 23
Denmark 9
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 19
France 20
Greece 26
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 17 (+1)
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 7 (-2)
Sweden 19

The Netherlands = awesome. I've never had as much fun playing a naval Civ. The Sea Beggars are ridiculous, the Polders are awesome and the UA isn't too shabby either.

Spain are situational in the extreme. I would much rather the UA was reworked so that they received a gold bonus for every X tiles discovered - either that, or give Scouts +1 movement. The Natural Wonder thing is silly and gimicky.
 
America 16
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 23
Denmark 9
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 19 + 1 = 20
France 20
Greece 26
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 7 - 5 = 5
Sweden 19

+ 1 for Ethiopia becaus everything about tg is synergic and synergy is good. The mehal sefari is insane in a occ defense when fortified on a fortress (20+30+50)! It's like two while era ahead!

-2 Spain because I loathe regen, even though I sometime do. Not very well thought IMO
 
America 16
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 23
Denmark 9
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 26
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 18 (+1)
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17 (-2)

The Netherlands are absolutely awesome when played to their best abilities. With the introduction of the new added luxuries, their UA essentially gives you happiness equivalent to 3-4 Notre Dames, if you manage to have at least one copy of most of them in the mid-/late game. With Commerce - Protectionism it becomes über powerful and allows you to grow huge cities, spread wide and spend less hammers on happiness buildings and wonders if so desired. The ability to trade off all your luxuries in the beginning, gives more gold at a pivotal moment in the game. Add the Sea Beggar and Polders to the equation and this is a top-5 civ.

Sweden because it seems a waste to burn of GPs to City States, to achive what can be achieved with gold/quests/religion spread/barb hunting etc. The UU doesn't seem to be anything special and I'm not sure how much I like the other aspect of the UA. This civ should have some kind of unique diplomatic modifier (akin to their history of modern times) with other civs. That would make them truly unique, as no other civ has a UA directed at diplomacy with other civs.
 
America 14 (-2)
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 24 (+1)
Denmark 9
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 26
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

America: Really underwhelming. There are so many better options for warmongers.

China: Given that early gold is now hard to come by the paper maker is alot more uselful, and their chu-ko-nu's are beastly when rushed. Wiped out majority of the continent using them in my last game with them.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 24
Denmark 10 (+1)
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 24 (-2)
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
The Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

Denmark - Fun civ to play. The embarked movement carrying over when disembarking is crazy good. Landing melee units and going on a pillage spree can net you a lot of gold very quickly.

Greece - With the ease of gaining favor with CS's in G&K and religions slowing the decay for everyone, their UA just isn't as good as it was in vanilla.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 23 (+1)
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 24
Huns 12
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 16 (-2)
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

"There's only two things in this world that I hate: People who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch!" -Nigel Powers

Okay, an excuse to put in a cheesy Austin Powers quote, but I really don't enjoy playing as the Dutch.

Babylon is really one of the best civs in the game. Getting a free Academy when you finish writing and increased GS generation throughout the game allow Babylon to build up a tech lead which is valuable for any victory type.
 
America 16
Arabia 22
Austria 2 (-2)
Aztec 25
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 23
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20 (+1)
Maya 25
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Austria is just broken. In addition to the previously mentioned gripes, when CS are bought through marriage, they lose their status as a CS/capital. In other words, if Austria is your opponent, you can burn all the former CS they assimilated which seems to not be an intended design characteristic.

Babylon is all about :c5science:. The free GS and extra GS make the game more adaptable to any strategy because you need good :c5science: no matter what victory you are going for.

That's odd. I'm pretty sure that I ticked Babylon and not Korea. I don't really play Korea much. I even said Babylon in the comments.

The tally aught to be:

Babylon 24
Korea 21
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 23
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22 (+1)
Celts 18
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 24
Huns 10 (-2)
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 22
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 16
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

Cartahage, those free harbors come in real useful if you have a large coastal empire.

Huns, a civ entirely dependent on the early rush no thank you.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 24
Byzantium 23
Carthage 22
Celts 16
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 24
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

Still defending the Dutch. Polders and Sea Beggers make for an exciting game.

I took point away from the Celts this time since I always say 'Meh' everytime I scroll past them in the civ selection menu. I don't like to play them, they are never an opponent to fear, and are in fact rather annoying since they are almost guaranteed the first Pantheon as an opponent.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 24
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23 +1
Celts 16
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 24
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 18 -2
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 17

Carthage is just massively fun early with their UU's and late with their UA making trade routes a breeze.

Russia just for the tundra start bias. I always grumble seeing tundra...even desert has a wonder to make it useful.
 
I have played them, and there isn't much to utilize the UA with (I try to give every civ a chance). I never play on small islands but I don't play on Pangeae either. On every Fractal map I play the UA has some purpose, just not a whole deal important.

Other than India's UA, I can't think of another UA that's more lackluster (maybe Ottomans). I even like England's UA, if that sounds ironic, and the extra spy is nice.

I don't really need to land/attack right away, so I never found the most optimal use for it. I have utilized siege units before, but they always run the risk that the city might pop a tireme at some point. If it's not one hit KO it makes the catapult an easy target for the city.

It's very good for early exploration - my current map (Sweden) would have been tailor-made for Harald, with a large number of large islands, most initially unoccupied, and nearly all with coastal access. Fast embarked movement in the early game and the ability to move a scout/settler onto land and explore or settle in the same turn is very nice. It may well be more an illusion of utility than actual use (in this game I grabbed most choice sites as Sweden, and there were still ruins by 1515, so no one else seemed to be doing much exploration; then again you can probably say the same for the value of Polynesia's UA), but it makes early-game exploring that bit more fun - and fun is, to me, what Denmark's about.

America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 24
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23
Celts 16
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 20
Russia 18 -2
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 19

With the restriction on having experience with civs to vote on them, the downvote is particularly tricky - I've tended only to play civs that look interesting... Greece goes down as being by far the least interesting of the diplomatic civs, and a civ I've played. As I and others have noted, its UA is no longer useful in any case, but I'm not a fan of passive modifiers that don't take work to use and Greece doesn't give you anything for your influence you won't get with any other civ (unlike Siam). Still, Alex is a very strong AI and Companion Cavalry are one of my favourite units in the game (except when Alex is using them as an AI - of all the UUs, this seems to be the one the computer knows how to use to most brutal effect).

It's taken me a few games to get the hang of Sweden, who I felt deserved a chance because of the interesting synergy in their UA. I rarely have trouble making long-term friends - in my current game I spent much of the mid-game with five DoFs (think Babylon bonus for all GP generation - and yes, it does apply to Generals and Admirals, although not as far as I can work out to Prophets). After a bizarre form of diplomatic chaos where I lost track of nearly all relations (remaining friends only with Korea, and then I think only by the skin of my teeth) and ended up in three wars, I've managed to get my bonus back up to 40%. Probably this is partly attributable to 'unwise' play to maximise the effect of the UA, befriending hated enemies, but I can often negotiate those kinds of situations so I doubt I was overreaching more than I would have otherwise. The GPs I've been putting out have helped strengthen my alliance with or ally with nearly every CS Austria hasn't picked up - I have eight CS allies so far (and 9 projected votes of the 10 I'll need in the UN when it gets built - 8 CSes, and the liberated Songhai). I even built The Louvre specifically to gain CS allies.

When you put out so many excess GPs it's no 'waste' to ally with multiple CSes using the spares, and once you hit the right Patronage policy and have enough allies, you benefit from the feedback of getting GPs periodically from CSes and giving them back to a CS (and very often fulfilling a 'Generate GP X' quest into the bargain). I'm specialising my GP production so that I mostly produce scientists (who I don't trade), merchants and artists - and indeed the Swedish UA is very good for disposing of semi-"unwanted" GPs that you generate incidentally because you want to maximise culture production from specialists, for instance. Quests and gold alone can usually net me strong alliances with several CSes, but not with most of the ones remaining on the board. While it seems almost always a better investment to give Generals and Admirals to CSes than to keep them (though this calculation would be different if I had a map where Citadels were useful), not to mention Prophets you capture of an unwanted religion.

To top it off, the Haakepeliita is nothing exceptional but is somewhat interesting in its design, and the Carolean is probably the best "basic unit with promotion" UU in the game.

EDIT: Though there is one downside - I hate the fact that the Swedish UA is called "Nobel Prize". It's overly silly and the fact that Alfred Nobel happened to be Swiss Swedish is surely not very characteristic of Sweden. ADDITIONAL EDIT: Not sure why I wrote Swiss...
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 23
Babylon 24
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 14
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 19

Roman Empire : This civ never get old. His UA and UU either. Fun civ to play, the 25% bonus from buildings already built in capital can be very valuable if you match everything in that sense. The trick is to rush buy every buildings needed in capital before starting others of the same type. Very simple and powerful!

Celts : Best civ to get fast pantheon(assuming forests around) and almost everytime the 1st civ to a religion if you can expand early near forests. But...that's all :(...at least for me.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 21
Babylon 24
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 15
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 19

Have to give an upvote to another civ that's fun to play as (which is why Egypt will be next) but I do wish the AI can learn to play the Mongols better. I would love to go against them as I play them.

Aztecs have frequently come up as an opponent in most of my games and they had never been much of an opponent. I never had any problems with them, even when they were my neighbors, and they usually end up eliminated or way down in the standings. The exception is that one scenario (forgot what it's called) where they were insanely powerful but that's not the regular game.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 21-2= 19
Babylon 24+1=25
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 15
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 15
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 19

The aztecs don't do much for me. They get a few social policies early on, but as the game goes on they lose they're usefulness. i don't think that it should be necessary to spam jaguars to make full use of them. The floating gardens get a pass, but they don't make up for their overall lousiness.

Babylon is my favorite science civ. They churn our GS's faster then anyone else, and making an academy once you get your writing GS you'll be getting techs faster then anyone else in the early eras. The bowman is pretty good for defensive and spamming them out is good for early conquest. The walls of Babylon are pretty good for defense, not much else to say about them.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 19
Babylon 26
Byzantium 23
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 13
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 15
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 15
Spain 5
Sweden 19

I'm having a harder time finding civs to give minuses to now. The rest of these are honestly decent but now its just who is more interesting. I havent played Egypt since I first got the game. I love their UA and UB, but the UU is weak, imo. But mostly I havent played them because so many others are still more interesting after i got my culture games with them out of the way.

Yep, Babylon is still my favorite, and that's with the addition of Korea, another science powerhouse I like.
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 19
Babylon 26
Byzantium 21
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 13
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 15
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 16 (+1)
Spain 5
Sweden 19

+1 to Songhai for being an interesting and enjoyable warmonger civ with a great civil building to round them off. -2 to Byzantium for having a UA that is completely reliant on religion without having any faith bonuses.
 
I have a question about Egypt before my next vote. People have said that their UU is weak but after one of the vanilla patches, that was changed and found them to be quite powerful on offense and defense. Has that changed again in G&K?
 
America 14
Arabia 23
Aztecs 19
Babylon 26
Byzantium 21
Carthage 23
Celts 14
China 24
Denmark 10
Egypt 13
England 16
Ethiopia 20
France 20
Greece 22
Huns 10
Inca 25
Iroquois 15
Japan 18
Korea 21
Maya 27
Mongolia 15
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Roman Empire 21
Russia 18
Siam 21
Songhai 14
Spain 5
Sweden 19

Iroquois: Why are they downgraded so much? UA allows early and cheap trade routs to be set up (since you don't have to build and pay for a road). UU doesn't require iron, so you can launch an early mohawk attack immediately upon researching IW. Once you get Mathematics, you can have a full mohark + catapult army regardless of your iron resources. And once you get the Longhouse UB, you have 1 food, 3 production forest tiles everywhere.

Songhai: As has been said before, while amphibious is nice, defensive embarkation is not as good in G&K; their UU is lackluster; their UB is good but nothing to write home about and doesn't complement a warmongering strategy. Triple pillage money is nice at the start, but I'll take starts from Netherlands (quick money), France (quick culture), Celts (quick faith), Mayans/Babylonians (quick science) over the pillage money.
 
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