To be fair, Bethesda has made many, many decisions that have frittered away good will, paid mods being only one of them, and probably not terribly high on the list.
I'm not sure if that is an argument as to how unimportant the issue of paid mods is, or an argument as to how absolutely boneheaded and awful Bethesda's management is.
I'm so delighted that Bethesda has finally lost the good will of the fans, because they deserved to lose it at least a decade ago. I mean, Bethesda is and has been for a very long time a seriously sleazy company, but they mostly got a pass because they were "Bethesda." (Plus, unpopular opinion: all of Bethesda's in-house games after Morrowind have been garbage; Fallout New Vegas is the exception because Obsidian, not Bethesda, made it.)
All that being said, I don't see Firaxis going the paid mod route, and if they do, I expect them to handle it in a less sleazy fashion than Bethesda did because everything Bethesda does is sleazy.
I doubt it. Fair or not, I think they're likely considered covered by Germany and (particularly) Hungary. I also suspect, though I may be wrong, that Portugal and the Byzantines/Bulgaria are considered higher priority. (And I am doubtful that they considered Bulgaria at all, again perhaps unfairly, especially with current Greek and Roman representation).
I doubt it. Fair or not, I think they're likely considered covered by Germany and (particularly) Hungary. I also suspect, though I may be wrong, that Portugal and the Byzantines/Bulgaria are considered higher priority. (And I am doubtful that they considered Bulgaria at all, again perhaps unfairly, especially with current Greek and Roman representation).
I doubt it. Fair or not, I think they're likely considered covered by Germany and (particularly) Hungary. I also suspect, though I may be wrong, that Portugal and the Byzantines/Bulgaria are considered higher priority. (And I am doubtful that they considered Bulgaria at all, again perhaps unfairly, especially with current Greek and Roman representation).
But sentiment toward Bulgaria aside, I do think that Austria is lower priority than Italy, Portugal, the Byzantines, and Bulgaria, at least. I'd say it's maybe a hair less likely than Denmark, and a hair more likely than Switzerland.
All that being said, I don't see Firaxis going the paid mod route, and if they do, I expect them to handle it in a less sleazy fashion than Bethesda did because everything Bethesda does is sleazy.
I don't see Firaxis going full paid mod, but maybe making an exception for a couple of modders who have contributed a lot of quality work to the game. It just happens that Sukritact is at the top of the list of what they might pay for, between making almost Firaxis-quality mods, and in the most prominent/desirable/marketable design space (i.e. new civilizations).
I'm fully expecting Menelik II, even though I want Zar'a Ya`qob.
Menelik, Haile Selassie, Zewditu; anyone from modern Ethiopia seems likely and I would be happy with any of them. It just feels right to represent Ethiopia at its height of global relevance and sprinkle it with a lot of references to its long history.
I doubt it. Fair or not, I think they're likely considered covered by Germany and (particularly) Hungary. I also suspect, though I may be wrong, that Portugal and the Byzantines/Bulgaria are considered higher priority. (And I am doubtful that they considered Bulgaria at all, again perhaps unfairly, especially with current Greek and Roman representation).
This thread is the first I ever heard of any interest in a Bulgarian civ, and Firaxis presumably made their decision on which civs to include some time ago - including any other than Gran Colombia that they chose based on fan requests.
That would either be Axum or Late Medieval/Early Modern Ethiopia. I'm expecting Menelik II because he's new, he's a big personality, and he'd represent a different era of African history than the other current African civs. As long as it's not Selassie again, I'll be happy. (That's not true. I'll be disappointed if it's Zewditu because she really wasn't that important.)
Zewditu would be an absolutely baffling choice. Jadwiga and Kristina made sense because of their symbolic importance and cultural icon status respectively. That would be like choosing Tutanchamun for Egypt.
As is often the case, I agree with Zaarin and his assessment hat Menelik II is the likely choice, which is great because he's by far the best ~new leader~ choice for Ethiopia. The Battle of Adwa and the settling of Addis Ababa were huge hallmarks in Ethiopian history. Also, hat.
But sentiment toward Bulgaria aside, I do think that Austria is lower priority than Italy, Portugal, the Byzantines, and Bulgaria, at least. I'd say it's maybe a hair less likely than Denmark, and a hair more likely than Switzerland.
This thread is the first I ever heard of any interest in a Bulgarian civ, and Firaxis presumably made their decision on which civs to include some time ago - including any other than Gran Colombia that they chose based on fan requests.
I've been talking on and off about it for about a year. Others have too and I've seen several posts over the years of players describing it as something they are still surprised hasn't made it into civ. It's not a new concept at all. Bulgaria is by far the best civ to represent most of the Balkan states (actually dovetailing pretty damn well with Hungary at its height under Corvinus), and has some pretty clear, unique design decisions supporting it (Simeon I as a leader, literary school as a unique building, Bulgarian chorus for the music).
If VI was planning on filling in the map more specifically with large, region-encompassing empires that haven't appeared in the game yet, I would put Bulgaria at the top of the list of Eurasian civs that haven't already been included in VI, alongside the Timurids/Kushans, Oman/Swahili, and Burma (Tibet won't happen, Siberia lacked infrastructure, and Vietnam's merits do not include being large and space-filling). And if VI was planning from the beginning on focusing on large, unique cultures to diversify the aesthetic, then I would have to believe Bulgarian women's choruses would have come up.
I don't think Gran Colombia was a fan request, at least no more or less than Bulgaria has been since V. I think that was also a civ that was planned fairly early from the beginning. It follows VI's trend of trying to fill map gaps with civs that can represent geographical dominance over several states . Scythia covering Kazakhstan and the northern 'stans. Georgia covering Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Ossetia. The Mapuche covering the more populous areas of Chile and Argentina. Hungary (under Corvinus) covering Silesia, Croatia, and Romania. All of this complimenting how Germany encompassing Prussia and Austria; Poland, Lithuania; Sweden, Finland, etc. etc. Gran Colombia slides in comfortably in the same way to vicariously represent the heritage of Panama, Ecuador, and Venezuela. It was always a good choice under VI's design philosophy, there were just many players who were applying V's meritocracy to VI instead of trying to figure out what VI was doing differently.
Agreed. Anyone who expects NFP to be filled with anything other than staples and fan requests is in for disappointment, I think. This pass has one purpose and one purpose only: pure fan service.
Agreed. Anyone who expects NFP to be filled with anything other than staples and fan requests is in for disappointment, I think. This pass has one purpose and one purpose only: pure fan service.
Eh I don't think we have enough information to say either way. So far none of the civs announced for NFP could only have been justified by fan service; Maya, Gran Colombia, and Ethiopia are all choices which--albeit very popular--were also wholly consistent with VI's mapfilling culturefest.
And, to that end, the Timurids/Mughals, Bulgaria, and Burma would also be consistent, and have also been highly requested civs. Certainly moreso than Scotland, Georgia, or Canada. The Timurids/Mughals especially.
I wouldn't write NFP off as complete fanservice until we got something that went strictly against VI's selection tendencies and was included purely for fanservice. Something like Babylon or Austria or the Iroquois. Until then, I don't see much use in concluding either way, especially since we don't know yet if more content is being developed after NFP.
Also, random shower thought. Since many seem to want a Lhasa religious city-state, I would like to put forth the idea of a Yakutsk Industrial city-state. Bonuses to mining resources.
I doubt it. Fair or not, I think they're likely considered covered by Germany and (particularly) Hungary. I also suspect, though I may be wrong, that Portugal and the Byzantines/Bulgaria are considered higher priority. (And I am doubtful that they considered Bulgaria at all, again perhaps unfairly, especially with current Greek and Roman representation).
I doubt Austria is likely in this pass, but I feel the need to repeat that the idea that Austria is "covered" by Germany and Hungary is just ridiculous. I think if Austria isn't in the pass, it'll be for two reasons. One, Portugal and Byzantium I think are almost a lock for this pass, and two European Civs eating up slots in the pass seems like a lot, especially considering Civ VI's lackluster Native North American representation. Two, I think Italy will be more likely than Austria, given how people have been asking for Italy since forever, and the city state list having a notable absence of Italian city-states, barring Bologna.
But while I think Austria seems like a reach this pass, I don't think it's because of Germany & Hungary already being in the game. Historically speaking, that notion just makes zero sense, as I've already explained.
I've been talking on and off about it for about a year. Others have too and I've seen several posts over the years of players describing it as something they are still surprised hasn't made it into civ. It's not a new concept at all. Bulgaria is by far the best civ to represent most of the Balkan states (actually dovetailing pretty damn well with Hungary at its height under Corvinus), and has some pretty clear, unique design decisions supporting it (Simeon I as a leader, literary school as a unique building, Bulgarian chorus for the music).
If VI was planning on filling in the map more specifically with large, region-encompassing empires that haven't appeared in the game yet, I would put Bulgaria at the top of the list of Eurasian civs that haven't already been included in VI, alongside the Timurids/Kushans, Oman/Swahili, and Burma (Tibet won't happen, Siberia lacked infrastructure, and Vietnam's merits do not include being large and space-filling).
Vietnam is three-quarters the size of the entire Balkans and larger than numerous civs that are represented in the game. It's pretty much as 'space-filling' between China, Mongolia and the Khmer as Burma is between India and the Khmer on the scale of a TSL map.
I don't think that Europe's problem in Civ is underrepresentation or that there's enough of a gap to matter on a TSL map. The Caucasus barely fits between the Ottomans, Persia and India.
I think that was also a civ that was planned fairly early from the beginning.
I don't think any of the New Frontier pass was planned at all. I suspect there may have been a vague intent to put out a small DLC or two at the end of the game's life cycle after Gathering Storm, much as Civ V had the scrambled map packs. Civ VI's priorities align well with finally using Gran Colombia, just as they did with Georgia - but, just as Georgia was prompted by fan requests, so I suspect was Gran Colombia.
Eh I don't think we have enough information to say either way. So far none of the civs announced for NFP could only have been justified by fan service; Maya, Gran Colombia, and Ethiopia are all choices which--albeit very popular--were also wholly consistent with VI's mapfilling culturefest.
And, to that end, the Timurids/Mughals, Bulgaria, and Burma would also be consistent, and have also been highly requested civs. Certainly moreso than Scotland, Georgia, or Canada. The Timurids/Mughals especially.
I wouldn't write NFP off as complete fanservice until we got something that went strictly against VI's selection tendencies and was included purely for fanservice. Something like Babylon or Austria or the Iroquois. Until then, I don't see much use in concluding either way, especially since we don't know yet if more content is being developed after NFP.
Also, random shower thought. Since many seem to want a Lhasa religious city-state, I would like to put forth the idea of a Yakutsk Industrial city-state. Bonuses to mining resources.
I think you both are right with a lean to Zaarin. Devs care about mapfilling and regional representation, i’m sure, but at the end of the day. if a civ is especially relevant, especially popular, or has precedent and *didn’t* make it in, they’d get so much flak. They’d rather jam pack europe if *every* civ fan would buy the dlc if they did than map fill for the sake of map filling
I’m sure map filling is a consideration, but only insofar as it doesn’t interfere with the profit motivation.
Vietnam is just as mapfilling as Burma, by the way.
There's also still the leak so one should probably mainly hope for one new civ (props Italy), one native american tribe and otherwise the mentoined staples.
There's also still the leak so one should probably mainly hope for one new civ (props Italy), one native american tribe and otherwise the mentoined staples.
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I mean, Bethesda is and has been for a very long time a seriously sleazy company, but they mostly got a pass because they were "Bethesda." (Plus, unpopular opinion: all of Bethesda's in-house games after Morrowind have been garbage; Fallout New Vegas is the exception because Obsidian, not Bethesda, made it.)
