The settler cost going up needs to be eliminated
I totally disagree. Things need to step up as we progress in the game. Damn too easy and unchallenging otherwise
The settler cost going up needs to be eliminated
I guess they did add Loyalty bonuses to vanilla civs, so they could add a governor version of Satrapies. That would be nice, as it is quite lacking after the first era (like all domestic trade route bonuses).
If anything, Spain should be the model now for domestic trade routes. By my reckoning, they are the only civilisation, with the extremely situational exception of Cree in some circumstances, that can effectively use domestic trade routes throughout the game. Perhaps Inca can as well, but only if you manage to nab Chinguetti.
The settler cost going up needs to be eliminated
Pathing and being thrown out of a CS you have freed straight into the enemy territory both just suck.
Is the problem with DA fixed, where civs don't reconquer their flipped cities? In DA this means, that on large maps, Free cities overtake easily entire continents, as their loyalty pressure combines.
Being kicked out of the CS territory is an interesting one. It screws you in this instance, but it also kicks out enemy troops when you declare war on an AI who is attacking your CS, often saving them.
Being kicked out after declaring war and being kicked out after rescuing them are two different phenomena (from a gameplay perspective). I largely agree with the former to prevent abuse of OB, but the latter is not only immersion breaking but causes real issues with gameplay too. Once, they kicked me out and my weakened unit got put into range of both enemy encampment and walls. I was not pleased that they threw my unit to the wolves for having liberated them.
To add, I think end of treaty needs to be dealt with. It gets frustrating that when my OB/Alliance/whatever runs out, all my units get teleported out, even when both parties fully intend to renew. Either have a notification come up and give us the chance to renew before it ends so we can opt to have a continuous Alliance, or open up a renegotiation opportunity 5 turns before so I can go in and secure a renewal. Again, it's immersion breaking, especially to have it happen potentially upto every 6 turns, although I've yet to have it get a unit of mine killed.
Being kicked out after declaring war and being kicked out after rescuing them are two different phenomena (from a gameplay perspective). I largely agree with the former to prevent abuse of OB, but the latter is not only immersion breaking but causes real issues with gameplay too. Once, they kicked me out and my weakened unit got put into range of both enemy encampment and walls. I was not pleased that they threw my unit to the wolves for having liberated them.
To add, I think end of treaty needs to be dealt with. It gets frustrating that when my OB/Alliance/whatever runs out, all my units get teleported out, even when both parties fully intend to renew. Either have a notification come up and give us the chance to renew before it ends so we can opt to have a continuous Alliance, or open up a renegotiation opportunity 5 turns before so I can go in and secure a renewal. Again, it's immersion breaking, especially to have it happen potentially upto every 6 turns, although I've yet to have it get a unit of mine killed.
I can see what you mean, now. Thanks for explaining.I do not think you get what I mean. An AI will have surrounded a CS you are suzerain of, and will be attacking them (at war). You declare war on that AI and all their units suddenly fly off out of the CS's territory, spread to every border, just like when you liberate a CS.
Never occurred to me, but you're right, GBD doesn't prevent it either. The code to expel units must be run before the code to implement open borders. I think GBD would be superfluous in this case - when you liberate a CS, you automatically become suzerain and so get OB anyway.The last time I runned into it this mechanic even ignored the case of becoming Suzerain by liberating and having the Gunboat Diplomacy active
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-afterwards-running-gunboat-diplomacy.660470/
Actually they changed how restrictive the chateau is in the latest patch, instead of being adjacent to a river, it now needs to be adjecent to a bonus or luxury resource which makes it much easier to place down. (they now get bonus gold from being placed next to river instead of being next to luxury resources though).
Issues that probably won't be fixed
Game balanced around only standard speed
Any map size beyond standard leads to LOOOONG end turns essentially stopping the game before you get to the end era's
By the time you reach the modern era you already know who will win the game
Most of the content added in the last year were gimmicks
The AI does not matter to the devs, they consider this a multiplayer game, which is why they never added full modding support..... mods to execs obsessed with multiplayer equals cheating.
If civ7 is anything like civ6 and it does not fix the above.... this series is dead.
It is still quite restrictive: they removed the River one for a Luxury/Bonus ressource AND not being adjacent to each other. Why both? Not being adjacent to each other is already pretty limitative: you can put it, at most, on 33% of the tiles. No need to add more!
The problems of the Château are the same for most unique tile improvement:
I would love to see the Château and the Open-Air Museum at Feudalism with less bonuses. Same thing with the Golf Course and the Ice Hockey Rink at Games and Recreations. The Nubian Pyramids and the Ice Hockey Rink should be available on every biome but will only shine on Desert and Tundra. The Stepwell and the Terrace Farm could act like Farms in order to not break the Food adjacency. And so on...
- Availability: Humanism is way too late. All tile improvements should be available early (Classical, maybe early Medieval) but at a weaker version. It will recover its full potential at its original unlocking technology or civic. Having to wait to unlock a tile improvement past your "Builder frenzy" (Feudalism + Monumentality) is out of timing.
- Restriction: one is enough, no need to add Bonus/Luxury resources in the mix! Instead, it could give additional bonuses when adjacent to Luxury bonuses. More generally, simplify the restriction to one, two at most if necessary.
- Should all Civilizations have bias in order to have full potential of their UI? For example, France had Rivers, but now it needs Bonus/Luxury resource as well, should it need a bias toward this too? Same question with UU: Niter bias for England, France, Spain, the Netherlands...should be a thing? After all, the Ottomans did gain that bias with the last update...
- Uniqueness (optional): the Château suffers the comparison from the other Culture & Gold tile improvements. Should the bonuses / yields change in order to make it more unique?
For France, I believe it needs to be completely rethought. Not in order to make them “gamebreaking”, but more “flavorful”, “refreshing” and “less passive”. Currently, France is all about producing Wonders, milking them with Château that would give Tourism at Flight. Technically, it doesn’t sound bad, but the execution is meh: half the abilities are dedicated to this, and you need to count on the leaders to add variety to the gameplay. This gameplan should only take 1 ability. Sadly, building Wonders is not viable enough and they are not great Tourism generators. The game is really afraid of giving bonuses toward Wonders: mediocre Production boosts and Tourism, “Wish You Were Here” only gives +50% Tourism with Governors as restriction (National Parks are +100% without Governors…), while the Tourism modifiers act weirdly with Wonders. If you skip the Wonder game, your Châteaux end up weak. Basically, you are playing a blank Civilization with a late Garde Impériale if you skip the Wonder game, and only count on your leader ability to shine.
For me:
- The Grand Tour ability should encompass all the french ability linked to Wonders. The Culture given by the Château from adjacent Wonders should be a "+5% Culture to the city for each Wonders it has". Looking at the new Mapuche's Toqui's ability, I believe there could be an interesting thing to be done here.
- Château should be more unique and not be a "less flexible and worst Pairidaeza". For example: a Culture and Food one, something not done yet.
Spoiler Here some ideas of a rethought France :
GRAND TOUR
Cities gain +5% Food, +5% Culture, +10% Tourism and +10% Production towards Wonders and for each Wonders they have. Already built Wonders that are owned by France can be rebuilt to another city.
CHÂTEAU
Once the Feudalism civic is discovered, unlocks the Builder ability to construct a Château.
+1 Culture, +1 Food, +0.5 Housing and +1 Appeal.
+1 Culture if next to a River.
+1 Food per adjacent Luxury resource.
+1 additional Food at Sanitation technology.
+1 additional Culture at Cultural Heritage civic.
Provides Tourism after researching Flight. Cannot be adjacent to another Château.
CATHERINE'S MAGNIFICENCES
Improved Luxury resources receive +1 Culture, up to +2 if adjacent to Theater Square districts. May initiate the Court Festival project in any city with a Theater Square district, yielding 10% of the Production cost as Culture and Tourism for each Luxury resources that she possesses.
COURT OF LOVE
All Great Works yield 1 Faith, 1 Loyalty and cause -1 Loyalty to foreign cities within 10 tiles. Each city skips the Free City step and joins Eleanor’s civilization if it rebels from Loyalty pressure but has received most of Loyalty pressure from her. +50% Great Musician points gained from all sources.
EXPLANATION
Grand tour: Rebuilt wonders erase the original just as like you can rebuild a Wonder destroyed by Nuclear Strike. You can also conquer a city, rebuilt the Wonder to your wonder city, then ceded back the city wonderless. Bonuses triggering at completion, like the units from Statue of Zeus, do not activate again. It is rather gimmicky, but it gives flavor and it is an echo to the Liberty Statue: built in France, and assembled in USA. Or when the french stole, restole the Vogel Greif from the Germans and transform it into a wonderful Artifact (currently: the french is lending the Vogel Greif to the German...). Or when they moved out many buildings from the World Exhibition to different place like in Chili (Museo Artequin) or in Martinique (Bibliothèque Shoelcher). You could say that that new ability will probably lead to a one powerful cultural and populous city, further cemented by the ability to relocate Wonders to that city. But that's France and Paris in a nutshell!
Garde Impériale : Same.
Château: More flexible. Changed to a Culture & Food tile improvement in order to make it feels different than the Pairidaeza and the Great Wall that are Culture & Gold. The "wonder milking" strategy is removed, and was added directly in the Grand Tour ability. Worst as a Culture generator, but greater overall. It allows to remove Farms for something giving Culture in exchange, while being more interesting at setting National Parks.
Catherine Flying's Squadron: Same.
Catherine's Magnificence: The project takes all luxury now, and not only the duplicates, which will make it less frustrating but stronger. The power of the project is toned down: instead of giving 50 Culture/Tourism per luxury, it gives 10% of the Production cost. At 0% tech, it is a sad 6.5 Culture/Tourism per luxury, and reverts back to 50 Culture/Tourism at 50% tech or civic completed. It also means it gives 97.5 Culture/Tourism per luxury once all tech/civic are discovered! It will make early victory harder, and late victory earlier. The Culture from luxury is made available earlier. You can now enjoy it from the start at +1 Culture (like Gaul's Mines), and get back to +2 with Theatre Square. Since the Château is more flexible, I removed it from the ability. Also, if a Leader Switcheroo game mode is showing up, then it will work better!
Court of Love: I just added +1 Faith and +1 Loyalty to Great Work. Sometimes, you couldn't keep the city that flipped to you: the +1 Loyalty per GW could prevent that. It would be a better ability for England: it could manage Loyalty issue with Great Work more easily. I wanted to give her some Rock Bands to emulate Troubadours/Trobairitz, but I settled to some regular +50% GPP.
- mods with a lot of graphical assets not supported anymore
- large maps not supported anymore (which make civ6 maps the smallest since civ1, even civ2 could handle larger maps)
Good compilation Pietato. For a long time I found all the negativity on this forum annoying but I think with NFP this has become the most unstable version of CIV since the start of the series. If they really think this game finished and do not bring out a patch to fix most issues on this list, CIV 7 will be the first since CIV 1 (including all expansions) I will not spend my money on.
Well, one can always hope. The Snyder cut did come out and wouldn't have expected fans to get what they wanted. So thanks @Pietato for compiling all that!
Pathing and being thrown out of a CS you have freed straight into the enemy territory both just suck.
Pathing, of course...bad one to forget.
Being kicked out of the CS territory is an interesting one. It screws you in this instance, but it also kicks out enemy troops when you declare war on an AI who is attacking your CS, often saving them.
I'd like to mention some quality-of-life issues, because fixing those would objectively make the game more enjoyable without affecting the game's balance too much.
-You should be able to close borders from turn 1. It's infuriating that AI can trespass on your lands and block you from improving tiles, for example.
-Likewise you should be able to call out massed troops outside (or god fobid, inside) your borders and use a defensive casus belli. Right now you are treated as a warmonger when you are merely defending yourself from a blatant attack.
-You should be able to negotiate open borders with non-suzerained city-states, they hinder exploration too much.
-You should be able to pass through nonhostile city centers if you have open borders and enough MP to get to the other side, much like how you bypass tiles blocked by nonhostile units. It's particularly annoying to get past cities adjacent to rivers, because roads often go through the city center and the bridge is thus unusable.
-Liberating a city should give you at least temporary open borders for that city. Right now, your units get teleported out of position upon city capture (even if ti was a CS that you are now the suzerain of), and that can easily get them killed.
-You should be able to swap positions between units that have other units between them. This was possible in Civ V, but is gone from Civ VI for whatever reason. It makes shuffling units around extremely tedious and often limits your available moves. E.g if you want to rotate out a wounded blocker unit from the front, you may be forced to waste a turn of a ranged unit that is positioned between it and the reinforcing blocker unit that you want to move in from behind.
-The vanilla trade route interface is awful, it is not sortable at all and the rows are way too thick.
It is still quite restrictive: they removed the River one for a Luxury/Bonus ressource AND not being adjacent to each other. Why both? Not being adjacent to each other is already pretty limitative: you can put it, at most, on 33% of the tiles. No need to add more!
The problems of the Château are the same for most unique tile improvement:
I would love to see the Château and the Open-Air Museum at Feudalism with less bonuses. Same thing with the Golf Course and the Ice Hockey Rink at Games and Recreations. The Nubian Pyramids and the Ice Hockey Rink should be available on every biome but will only shine on Desert and Tundra. The Stepwell and the Terrace Farm could act like Farms in order to not break the Food adjacency. And so on...
- Availability: Humanism is way too late. All tile improvements should be available early (Classical, maybe early Medieval) but at a weaker version. It will recover its full potential at its original unlocking technology or civic. Having to wait to unlock a tile improvement past your "Builder frenzy" (Feudalism + Monumentality) is out of timing.
- Restriction: one is enough, no need to add Bonus/Luxury resources in the mix! Instead, it could give additional bonuses when adjacent to Luxury bonuses. More generally, simplify the restriction to one, two at most if necessary.
- Should all Civilizations have bias in order to have full potential of their UI? For example, France had Rivers, but now it needs Bonus/Luxury resource as well, should it need a bias toward this too? Same question with UU: Niter bias for England, France, Spain, the Netherlands...should be a thing? After all, the Ottomans did gain that bias with the last update...
- Uniqueness (optional): the Château suffers the comparison from the other Culture & Gold tile improvements. Should the bonuses / yields change in order to make it more unique?
For France, I believe it needs to be completely rethought. Not in order to make them “gamebreaking”, but more “flavorful”, “refreshing” and “less passive”. Currently, France is all about producing Wonders, milking them with Château that would give Tourism at Flight. Technically, it doesn’t sound bad, but the execution is meh: half the abilities are dedicated to this, and you need to count on the leaders to add variety to the gameplay. This gameplan should only take 1 ability. Sadly, building Wonders is not viable enough and they are not great Tourism generators. The game is really afraid of giving bonuses toward Wonders: mediocre Production boosts and Tourism, “Wish You Were Here” only gives +50% Tourism with Governors as restriction (National Parks are +100% without Governors…), while the Tourism modifiers act weirdly with Wonders. If you skip the Wonder game, your Châteaux end up weak. Basically, you are playing a blank Civilization with a late Garde Impériale if you skip the Wonder game, and only count on your leader ability to shine.
For me:
- The Grand Tour ability should encompass all the french ability linked to Wonders. The Culture given by the Château from adjacent Wonders should be a "+5% Culture to the city for each Wonders it has". Looking at the new Mapuche's Toqui's ability, I believe there could be an interesting thing to be done here.
- Château should be more unique and not be a "less flexible and worst Pairidaeza". For example: a Culture and Food one, something not done yet.
Spoiler Here some ideas of a rethought France :
GRAND TOUR
Cities gain +5% Food, +5% Culture, +10% Tourism and +10% Production towards Wonders and for each Wonders they have. Already built Wonders that are owned by France can be rebuilt to another city.
CHÂTEAU
Once the Feudalism civic is discovered, unlocks the Builder ability to construct a Château.
+1 Culture, +1 Food, +0.5 Housing and +1 Appeal.
+1 Culture if next to a River.
+1 Food per adjacent Luxury resource.
+1 additional Food at Sanitation technology.
+1 additional Culture at Cultural Heritage civic.
Provides Tourism after researching Flight. Cannot be adjacent to another Château.
CATHERINE'S MAGNIFICENCES
Improved Luxury resources receive +1 Culture, up to +2 if adjacent to Theater Square districts. May initiate the Court Festival project in any city with a Theater Square district, yielding 10% of the Production cost as Culture and Tourism for each Luxury resources that she possesses.
COURT OF LOVE
All Great Works yield 1 Faith, 1 Loyalty and cause -1 Loyalty to foreign cities within 10 tiles. Each city skips the Free City step and joins Eleanor’s civilization if it rebels from Loyalty pressure but has received most of Loyalty pressure from her. +50% Great Musician points gained from all sources.
EXPLANATION
Grand tour: Rebuilt wonders erase the original just as like you can rebuild a Wonder destroyed by Nuclear Strike. You can also conquer a city, rebuilt the Wonder to your wonder city, then ceded back the city wonderless. Bonuses triggering at completion, like the units from Statue of Zeus, do not activate again. It is rather gimmicky, but it gives flavor and it is an echo to the Liberty Statue: built in France, and assembled in USA. Or when the french stole, restole the Vogel Greif from the Germans and transform it into a wonderful Artifact (currently: the french is lending the Vogel Greif to the German...). Or when they moved out many buildings from the World Exhibition to different place like in Chili (Museo Artequin) or in Martinique (Bibliothèque Shoelcher). You could say that that new ability will probably lead to a one powerful cultural and populous city, further cemented by the ability to relocate Wonders to that city. But that's France and Paris in a nutshell!
Garde Impériale : Same.
Château: More flexible. Changed to a Culture & Food tile improvement in order to make it feels different than the Pairidaeza and the Great Wall that are Culture & Gold. The "wonder milking" strategy is removed, and was added directly in the Grand Tour ability. Worst as a Culture generator, but greater overall. It allows to remove Farms for something giving Culture in exchange, while being more interesting at setting National Parks.
Catherine Flying's Squadron: Same.
Catherine's Magnificence: The project takes all luxury now, and not only the duplicates, which will make it less frustrating but stronger. The power of the project is toned down: instead of giving 50 Culture/Tourism per luxury, it gives 10% of the Production cost. At 0% tech, it is a sad 6.5 Culture/Tourism per luxury, and reverts back to 50 Culture/Tourism at 50% tech or civic completed. It also means it gives 97.5 Culture/Tourism per luxury once all tech/civic are discovered! It will make early victory harder, and late victory earlier. The Culture from luxury is made available earlier. You can now enjoy it from the start at +1 Culture (like Gaul's Mines), and get back to +2 with Theatre Square. Since the Château is more flexible, I removed it from the ability. Also, if a Leader Switcheroo game mode is showing up, then it will work better!
Court of Love: I just added +1 Faith and +1 Loyalty to Great Work. Sometimes, you couldn't keep the city that flipped to you: the +1 Loyalty per GW could prevent that. It would be a better ability for England: it could manage Loyalty issue with Great Work more easily. I wanted to give her some Rock Bands to emulate Troubadours/Trobairitz, but I settled to some regular +50% GPP.
My own personal suspicion as to why they didn’t release the DLL is because of the legacy of Vox Populi. I heard Civ 6 only recently eclipsed concurrent Civ 5 users in Gathering Storm. I think they want to avoid people sticking with the prior installment due to modders having more time to focus on AI than Firaxis itself .
Also, I think it’s obvious they did design 6 with MP more in mind than prior installments