Commanding Officers and Broader Alignment

[Grey Fox]

Nah, I want to keep heroes as they are. I was going to make some of them Field Marshals as well, but changed my mind.

Field Marshal is a military officer, it's the highest rank in the armies in which it is used.
USA doesn't use it, they use General of the Army, or a 5-star General. George Marshall became the first American general to be promoted to 5-star rank, which might be why they don't call them Field Marshals - That would have been Marshal Marshall

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[Verdian]

Instead of Field Marshals, might I throw out the name "Legends"? That is fairly vague (and thus broadens the options of figures that can be created, since there will be so many), highlights their importance, and is suitably fantasy-ish.

As for ideas for random events Field Marshals, using the guilds comes to mind. Leader of the Ratcatchers Guild and, although the name escapes me now, the guild that was created if you start to lose a war by an invading army. If you wanted to use killing Archeron, SOMEONE had to summon him and is probably still around in his city. Others could be defeating and getting Mokka, getting a goblin when you raze a fort, or undead spirit when you raze a barrow. This wouldn't happen every time, of course, but could be possible rare triggers.

 

[Grey Fox]

Thing is I want them to be associated with control over the army. A legend can be anything.
They don't even have to have a unit associated with them, and some might not (but they all probably will). In the far future, I might even add a type to the "commander" entries so I can make Fleet Admirals, Great Statesmen, or whatever.

Field Marshal sounds more fantasy than General or Lieutenant or many other military ranks.

 

[cyther]

... although the name escapes me now, the guild that was created if you start to lose a war by an invading army.

The Brotherhood of Wardens, is was called. I hated that guild, but it could use some backstory.

 

[Grey Fox]

I haven't done as much designing as I had planned. I took it easy this weekend and played games and stuff.
But I needed it. I felt a little sick and I felt like chillin (Don't wanna burn out you you know)

But today I merged the mod with latest FfH2 patch, so its up to date with all the AI improvements and whatnot.

Still got lots of Marshals to design.
You got ideas?
Don't be afraid to post em!

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm sure certain people will come up with ideas.

 

[Brokenbone]

Idea? While I'd suggest all credit to (or consultation with!) KillerClowns, how about the commander (and/or other characters) of the Order of the Blank Banner from his fan fiction? That at a high level is an army, brigade, or whatever of tough nuts from other cultures assimilated in Elohim campaigns that are prepared to hold their noses and do what the more "love and redemption" type Elohim are not prepared to do... although the Elohim don't admit they exist.

I'm thinking in terms of some kind of ability to remain hidden (as per the Hidden Promotion?) when they're fortified and not on the move, I'm really leery of the HN promotion due to how powerful it is, but maybe it'd be appropriate in certain circumstances. Much like the several versions ago Clan of Embers, the idea of an autoraze on city capture would make sense as well, but just so you could prevent having a collection of units under the Blank Banner type commander do all the heavy lifting, but then a normal unit (whether in the same stack or not) conquer the city and keep it, maybe any time the Blank Banner guy was within 4-5 tiles of a city being captured, it'd autoraze (goodness knows how hard that'd be to code though!). Note that if these guys had some variant of HN, it'd be possible they couldn't even conquer a city in order to raze it, so whatever gets done to reflect the whole "secret army" vibe, you'd maybe want to get around that.

Requirements would presumably be Elohim race, and maybe Fanaticism or Deception techs, maybe something else fits though.

Anyhow, it's just an idea seed, inspired by someone else's fiction, but I think there's some promise in the idea, no? I hesitate to take it too far without someone like KC being consulted though.

 

[Neomega]

Ok that's fine. I quite dislike the name ''Field Marshals'' though. I don't think the name fits the FFH setting or many of the civs.

yeah, Field Marshall is way too 1800's.

even though captain is not high rank anymore, the rank of captain used to be high.

The term general is quite an ancient term too, and commander would be good too.

Either way, this looks cool.

 

[Grey Fox]

Commanders are already in the game. And I might add the commander system from FF eventually. Where the highest ranking commanders are Generals (well at least for the Bannor there).

Captain is a way too low rank. And General of the Army like what the Americans call their Field Marshal, is too similar to General.

Even if the Field Marshal term is relatively new, I think it fits. It has grown on me at least.
It was used on succesful generals in China and Japan from as early as 900-1000 AD.
In the Holy Roman Empire in 1600s~ if not earlier.

 

[Ekolite]

Yes but it doesn't sound right. This is a fantasy setting after all, and ''Field Marshal'' just sounds too American (whether it was used in the HRE or not). It's not about the rank, it's about the name. The only FFH civ that would use a name like Field Marshal IMO is the Bannor.

Personally, if it has to be something military-related I'd pluck a name out of the Ancient Era - Greek or Roman maybe. Otherwise, I'd just call it ''Character'' or something similar and include a wider range of people with different effects, like a Banker who increases Commerce or a Missionary that makes all missionary units start with movement 1 and 2. I think you are being too restrictive limitting this mechanic to just military-boosters. (a niche already more or less filled by Heroes anyway)

 

[Valkrionn]

I like the Field Marshal name, honestly.

 

[Grey Fox]

I want the name to be understandable, and not just a fluff name. If I wanted something with fluff I would have chosen Stratarches, or something like that from greek.

But as it is, it's a name of a concept. Much like Commander, or Leader, or Civics. As you know, this is not dependent on any civ specific languages. The Embers might call their Commanders Buruk'ta´s for all I care. It still means Commander in english.

 

[Neomega]

Field Marshall is German and English, not American. And it conjures up images of guys with sahses and ornate helmets with bunches of medals and a monacle and baton. I mean do a google image search, and you'll see.

 

[Valkrionn]

He's said multiple times it's not an American rank. He even explained WHY it's not an American rank (First guy to reach it was named Marshal... Field Marshal Marshal?).

And like he said, it's a name that's been around for a long time, not just during the time you mention.... Those only come up on an image search because they were the ones around when cameras were invented.

Besides, if it's the name he wants to use it's the name he wants to use. Not going to convince him otherwise.

 

[Sephi]

In german we have the distinction between Army (modern) and Heer (old/fantasy), so Heerführer would be the most fitting description. But I don't know if such a word exists in english. Probably General but that is already taken by BTS I think.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yes Heerführer (same in swedish basically; Armé / Här - Härförare)
Swedish translation to english is Army Leader / General.

Field Marshal in german / swedish: Feldmarshall / Fältmarskalk.

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[Neomega]

well, I understand grey fox may want to make a large raking system of some sort, but I will make a final appeal for the term General. General is the most common used term for the leader of an army in English or any English translation, and it has been that way far before 900 - 1000 AD. It is the term used in Sun Tzu's art of war, by all known translations. Field Marshall simply conjures up the image of a man leading block napoleonic armies using gunpowder based weapons on flat battlefields. It really does.

 

[Grey Fox]

One of my problems with General is that an army usually have several of them.
They are the leaders of an army group. The Field Marshal is their boss. The leader of the entire Military.

 

[Neomega]

One of my problems with General is that an army usually have several of them.

kind of true, there are many ranks of general... but in more ancient times, there was only one. Only in multi-theater modern wars were there more, and even then, the Union general was Grant, and the Confederate General was Lee, there were more, but everyone knows and says that those were the two generals. Plus, as this mod is set up, a player may have multiple generals, although only one will be in charge.

In world war I, the US only needed Black Jack Pershing, but they promoted him to 5 stars so other foreign 5 stars would pay attention to him.

Also, if I am playing, just because I have a general sitting in my capital giving me bonuses, I will still probably consider my heros the real leaders. I also think general can be more aptly applied to non military commanders, like the treant leader.

 

[Grey Fox]

You won't have multiple Field Marshals. You will have access to multiple. If you switch to one, your current disappears (after the transition time), and you have your new. The unit's promotions, levels (in everything from unit to strategic/tactical) is saved if you decide to switch back later.