COF
Emperor
To change the subject, when do you think you'll be able to release the Slavs?
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Cultural Diversity
- Thread starter JFD
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JFD
Kathigitarkh
We call them the "Easterns" now. 
But it shouldn't be too long - I won't like to give an exact date. All but one - easy to implement - object is finished, and then I need to add in the effects for the UW (Buda Castle) and the UB (Basilica, which I'm not sure of the effects yet). Then I have a few things to update for the Steppes, a few things to wrap up with the new UI, and then I'm done (sounds like a lot, but none of this is nearly as complicated as some of the benefits and objectives I had to code).
But it shouldn't be too long - I won't like to give an exact date. All but one - easy to implement - object is finished, and then I need to add in the effects for the UW (Buda Castle) and the UB (Basilica, which I'm not sure of the effects yet). Then I have a few things to update for the Steppes, a few things to wrap up with the new UI, and then I'm done (sounds like a lot, but none of this is nearly as complicated as some of the benefits and objectives I had to code).
COF
Emperor
We call them the "Easterns" now.
But it shouldn't be too long - I won't like to give an exact date. All but one - easy to implement - object is finished, and then I need to add in the effects for the UW (Buda Castle) and the UB (Basilica, which I'm not sure of the effects yet). Then I have a few things to update for the Steppes, a few things to wrap up with the new UI, and then I'm done (sounds like a lot, but none of this is nearly as complicated as some of the benefits and objectives I had to code).
A Basilica is a pretty strange choice for a eastern UB, especially as the most famous one is in Rome/Vatican City
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Yeah, that's true when you think about the word, but I'm talking about the onion-domed basilicas of Russia. In Catholicism, a basilica has more religious implications, whereas in Orthodoxy its simply an architectural style. Its not the best choice, because I have civs like Poland and Hungary, who are definitely not suited for the Russian style Basilica - but I needed a religious building and I think this is the best option.
janboruta
Artistriarch
I reckon some Civ 4 and Civ 5 mods added a Basilica as the Byzantine unique component, so there is a precedent. If it is too troublesome or stretchy, perhaps changing it to a County Court (or something along these lines) could work; it could still give a bit of faith but also: Eastern European states, often big, had to rely on smaller, local units of self-governance, because large assemblies of parliament or the nobility were next to non-effective. This wasn't so common in other parts of Europe. This could facilitate the representation of, for example, fractured themes of the Byzantine Empire, Polish voivodeships, Russian principalities.
The name Basilica could then be freed up for the Graeco-Roman group. But again, just an idea.
The name Basilica could then be freed up for the Graeco-Roman group. But again, just an idea.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Alright, you win You can have your County Courts! I'll probably reserve the Basilica for SR to expand on the religious buildings that you can purchase with faith. Got an idea for its effect anyway.
Any good reference images that you can think of so I can make an icon (until one better comes along )? Everything in google images are American.
You can have your County Courts! I'll probably reserve the Basilica for SR to expand on the religious buildings that you can purchase with faith. Got an idea for its effect anyway.Any good reference images that you can think of so I can make an icon (until one better comes along
)? Everything in google images are American.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Sorry, I completely forgot to answer this. Please bear in mind that this list is tentative, and their focus are just rough ideas and aren't necessarily final (after the first two, I just start listing an overview of their major mechanical differences).
Steppe - Large, mobile army. Highly offensive.
Eastern - Tough to conquer and use faith to bolster their defenses.
High American - Highly effective at offensive war, and profiting religiously from war. Cannot have their own founder belief, but instead may choose a second pantheon.
Tribal American - Significant technological penalties, but gain combat bonuses (and science) from defeating more advanced units. Stays alive without cities and does not possess a Palace; instead, all cities start off with a third or so of what the Palace ordinarily produces for the capital.
Colonial - Exceptionally good at producing tourism, and has some sort of immigration mechanic in the late game that "steals" citizens from civs that they are more influential with.
Sub-Saharan - Probably something to do with wealth and natural luxury resources.
Mesopotamic - Earlier benefits from irrigation; certainly growth related.
Arabic - Science and faith intertwined.
Graeco-Roman - Facilitating a massive empire, great people/wonder related bonuses.
Germanic - Peace with barbarians.
Bharata - Not sure.
Japan - Bonuses for isolationism. Rapid industrialization.
Oriental - Not sure.
Pacific - Earlier embarking; more effective use of sea resources and open ocean.
Mandala - Not sure.
Papal - May issue bulls (policies purchased with faith) that affect all members of your religion.
HRE - May issue edicts that affect all allied city-states and you based upon the number of allied city-states.
Western European - Not sure.
Central European - Not sure.
P.S. I hope there's no hard feelings! I re-read a bit of what I wrote and it does come off as a bit condescending in places. I didn't mean it like that. What I was trying to say is that your concern over trying to respect the differences between culture groups, whilst perfectly reasonable, has to come only after I've considered the mechanics. Simply, I don't have the time to do more groups than are needed, and if there are only going to be minute functional differences, I'd rather not make the distinction. Again; sorry
senshidenshi
Switched the Red and Blue channels
JFD
Kathigitarkh
senshidenshi
Switched the Red and Blue channels
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Yup, they're a thing
I'm still annoyed by this; of this group, only Denmark is truly Germanic (the Celts are, well, Celtic). Then there's the irony of most of the Germanic states not being in this group...
Can we not find another name?
Edit: yes, I support Clan as a name.
Culture and faith perhaps? There are a few things that come to mind when I think of the region as a whole.
A LOT of Wats (or temples), you have Wats all over the place (unfortunately Siam has stolen them all in the game), Wats are basically our equivalent of Cathedrals, being mini-wonders by themselves. A lot of temples here stand out; first and foremost Angkor Wat, but also Borobudur, Wat Phra Kaew, Shwedagon Paya. You can see it from the UBs they all have. Siam has Wats, Indonesia has Candis (I know you've put them elsewhere for mechanics, but I'm talking about the region in general), I've given Burma Payas and intend to give the Khmer Prasats.
A lot of influence from India via Buddhism and Hinduism; ie. we've imported a lot of culture. Basically all the nations in the region have a version of the Ramayana as a national epic (Burma has the Yama Zatdaw as a UA in fact).
And the Mandala system; the whole area was governed by this system; so the whole place was actually a bunch of City States with overlapping spheres of influences, paying tribute to whoever was the most powerful at the time.
And well, elephants.
janboruta
Artistriarch
I think it was already called "Clan" or something along this line.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Northern, it seems.
LoneRebel
Emperor
Just stumbled upon this project now and it is pretty impressive. I'll be following this eagerly.
To some extent this reminds me of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" (although his thesis of civilizational conflict is probably overly simplistic, it's still interesting).
Even Huntington had difficulty deciding where to put the Philippines. There's definitely a lot of Indian influence (many Tagalog words are derived from Sanskrit, for example) but not as much as the mandala civs. There's definitely a lot of Chinese influence, but not as much as the oriental civs. The Filipino people are of course an Austronesian people with linguistic and ethnic ties to Polynesians, but different enough to probably preclude putting them in the same category (for that matter, where would Madagascar, an even more distant Austronesian nation, go?). The Philippines has certain resemblances to Latin American nations due to shared Spanish colonization, but is still different from them. The Philippines is definitely a postcolonial civ, but not an Anglo one like America, Canada or New Zealand. In other words, the Philippines could fit into one of five categories (Mandala, Oriental, Pacific, Latin, and Colonial) but defies an obvious categorization. They weren't kidding when they said the Philippines was a melting pot of influences.
Also, regarding colonial civs, my thinking is that they should be strong in the late game and weak early on. The bonuses should probably be stronger than usual, because they only come into effect later on (which already makes them less effective by definition). Tourism has already been mentioned, but I'm also thinking of ideological bonuses, and/or bonuses in general (science, production, culture, growth, etc.) that only kick in upon entering the Industrial Era.
This also applies to the Latin American civs, which to my mind are a somewhat different subset of colonial civs.
To some extent this reminds me of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" (although his thesis of civilizational conflict is probably overly simplistic, it's still interesting).
Even Huntington had difficulty deciding where to put the Philippines.
There's definitely a lot of Indian influence (many Tagalog words are derived from Sanskrit, for example) but not as much as the mandala civs. There's definitely a lot of Chinese influence, but not as much as the oriental civs. The Filipino people are of course an Austronesian people with linguistic and ethnic ties to Polynesians, but different enough to probably preclude putting them in the same category (for that matter, where would Madagascar, an even more distant Austronesian nation, go?). The Philippines has certain resemblances to Latin American nations due to shared Spanish colonization, but is still different from them. The Philippines is definitely a postcolonial civ, but not an Anglo one like America, Canada or New Zealand. In other words, the Philippines could fit into one of five categories (Mandala, Oriental, Pacific, Latin, and Colonial) but defies an obvious categorization. They weren't kidding when they said the Philippines was a melting pot of influences.Also, regarding colonial civs, my thinking is that they should be strong in the late game and weak early on. The bonuses should probably be stronger than usual, because they only come into effect later on (which already makes them less effective by definition). Tourism has already been mentioned, but I'm also thinking of ideological bonuses, and/or bonuses in general (science, production, culture, growth, etc.) that only kick in upon entering the Industrial Era.
This also applies to the Latin American civs, which to my mind are a somewhat different subset of colonial civs.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Okay, looking for one more cultural objective for the Steppes, then its pretty much finished.
So far, I've changed the Steppes objectives accordingly:
Possess the largest land empire in the world (Increases the length of Land Trade Routes.)
Be the first Steppe civilization to research Nomadic Tradition (Receive a Great Horde.)
Capture the Capital of the civilization with the highest score. (unknown reward. Ideas?)
I want something to reflect control over the Silk Road, but am not sure how to go about this. Longest trade route would be a plausible idea, but I'm not sure that there's a way to assess the length of a trade route (is there?) Otherwise, having trade routes with civilizations from three different culture groups might suffice?
However, the release probably won't come until after April 1st. I'm rushing to get another project done in time for that date, and even after this objective, I still must update Hungary.
So far, I've changed the Steppes objectives accordingly:
Possess the largest land empire in the world (Increases the length of Land Trade Routes.)
Be the first Steppe civilization to research Nomadic Tradition (Receive a Great Horde.)
Capture the Capital of the civilization with the highest score. (unknown reward. Ideas?)
I want something to reflect control over the Silk Road, but am not sure how to go about this. Longest trade route would be a plausible idea, but I'm not sure that there's a way to assess the length of a trade route (is there?) Otherwise, having trade routes with civilizations from three different culture groups might suffice?
However, the release probably won't come until after April 1st. I'm rushing to get another project done in time for that date, and even after this objective, I still must update Hungary.
whoward69
DLL Minion
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Interesting. I'll take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.
janboruta
Artistriarch
Very interesting idea - either of those objectives (trade routes with three different culture groups and longest trade route) could work with both the Steppe and Arabic culture group.