Current (SVN) development discussion thread
- Thread starter Leoreth
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Qiu
Warlord
As Orthodoxy brought in, now Barbarossa suffers a -9 negative relationship with Justinian I, who are absolutely unwilling to open borders. As long as Byzantines are not fighting with Arabians, the Germans have to declare war on Byzantines to launch a crusade for Jerusalem. I don't know if it is intended.
You can also attack Arabia or the Seljuks by sea (as happened during the fifth crusade for example). It's not optimal, maybe it's a good idea to let Justinian open his borders when you're at war with Arabia.
Also, has anyone tried the Mughals yet? I'm in the middle of my second attempt after I failed the first goal on my first (when I created it, I assumed that you'd need 3 cities per Mosque, but it's still possible). I'm now at ~1525 AD and produce roughly 500 culture per turn with science at 0%, this includes building culture so I'm probably undergeared in case of an early European invasion. In any case, the 50000 culture might be too much, and something in the area of 25k-30k is probably better.
I'm also at 15% population already, maybe it's better to make that the earlier goal. Or I replace it with something else.
Also, has anyone tried the Mughals yet? I'm in the middle of my second attempt after I failed the first goal on my first (when I created it, I assumed that you'd need 3 cities per Mosque, but it's still possible). I'm now at ~1525 AD and produce roughly 500 culture per turn with science at 0%, this includes building culture so I'm probably undergeared in case of an early European invasion. In any case, the 50000 culture might be too much, and something in the area of 25k-30k is probably better.
I'm also at 15% population already, maybe it's better to make that the earlier goal. Or I replace it with something else.
Qiu
Warlord
But the only harbour in Mediterranean Sea was Venedig. Byzantine Neapolis totally blocked its maritime route towards Jerusalem.
And it seems too distant to contact Arabians unless make Justinian opening border or conquer Naples.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Are there going to be any Orthodox Wonders? Apart from Hagia Sophia?
Because I assume on the 600 AD map at least Orthodox civs will not have Catholicism in their cities. This will cut them off from the powerful Catholic Wonders, as well as make them unable to initiate the Reformation.
What I suggest is make all Catholic Wonders accessible via Orthodoxy as well (Dunno how hard this is to code). Except perhaps the Apostolic Palace.
Because I assume on the 600 AD map at least Orthodox civs will not have Catholicism in their cities. This will cut them off from the powerful Catholic Wonders, as well as make them unable to initiate the Reformation.
What I suggest is make all Catholic Wonders accessible via Orthodoxy as well (Dunno how hard this is to code). Except perhaps the Apostolic Palace.
Good point, I'll see what I can do.
Only St. Basil's Cathedral so far.
You need Catholic state religion to do anything with the revolution anyway. If you have another, even with Catholicism in your cities, you can only "tolerate" the Reformation.
Would require some DLL changes. Don't know how necessary that really is since Protestantism doesn't have any wonders, too. Usually you get at least one city with Catholicism so you can still spread it if you want to.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I'm playing the Mughals too, atm, and experienced exactly the same thing: 500 culture with slider at 0% and Mosques already built. The goal indeed needs to made easier. And is this me, or do the Persian/Mughal goals not scale with speed? Because on Marathon, culture bombs generate more culture than on Normal.
The UP is also completely non-synergetic with the culture goal : running your slider at 100 % means you'll get at least 10 free happiness in every city, so -2
doesn't really mean much.True, but it's quite helpful in the early phase where you're still putting your money into research.
What bothers me more is that you rather won't research all the way to Constitution and so neither Taj Mahal nor the UB (which even gives a free artist to synergize with the UHV) will come to use.
Currently I'm considering to scrap the population goal and make the second to build the Red Fort and the Taj Mahal by 1660 AD (which, although I completely guessed here, is quite close to Shah Jahan's death). The culture goal could then check later.
The only problem I have with that is that this looks like a wasted opportunity since this second goal wouldn't be exceptionally hard.
What bothers me more is that you rather won't research all the way to Constitution and so neither Taj Mahal nor the UB (which even gives a free artist to synergize with the UHV) will come to use.
Currently I'm considering to scrap the population goal and make the second to build the Red Fort and the Taj Mahal by 1660 AD (which, although I completely guessed here, is quite close to Shah Jahan's death). The culture goal could then check later.
The only problem I have with that is that this looks like a wasted opportunity since this second goal wouldn't be exceptionally hard.
Okay, I've completed the Reformation change, and it should be clearer now how it works. The changes in short:
The Reformation still starts when Printing Press is first discovered by a Catholic civ. The Protestant shrine isn't built automatically anymore. Then you have three options:
1) Embrace the Reformation: Protestantism becomes your state religion, all your cities change to Protestantism, Catholicism may remain in larger cities, you get 100 gold for every city that had a Catholic monastery. If you have founded Protestantism, you get the shrine for free. Some of the civs that remained Catholic may declare war on you.
2) Tolerate Protestantism: Catholicism remains your state religion, Protestantism spreads to your cities and can even replace Catholicism.
3) Join the Counter-Reformation: Catholicism remains your state religion, almost no Protestantism spreads to your cities, Catholic monasteries get +2 research, and you will declare war on all civs that converted to Protestantism.
If Catholicism isn't your state religion, the only available option is (2), so no free gold for non-Catholics anymore. The player makes his decision one turn after everyone else so he's aware of the political consequences.
The Reformation still starts when Printing Press is first discovered by a Catholic civ. The Protestant shrine isn't built automatically anymore. Then you have three options:
1) Embrace the Reformation: Protestantism becomes your state religion, all your cities change to Protestantism, Catholicism may remain in larger cities, you get 100 gold for every city that had a Catholic monastery. If you have founded Protestantism, you get the shrine for free. Some of the civs that remained Catholic may declare war on you.
2) Tolerate Protestantism: Catholicism remains your state religion, Protestantism spreads to your cities and can even replace Catholicism.
3) Join the Counter-Reformation: Catholicism remains your state religion, almost no Protestantism spreads to your cities, Catholic monasteries get +2 research, and you will declare war on all civs that converted to Protestantism.
If Catholicism isn't your state religion, the only available option is (2), so no free gold for non-Catholics anymore. The player makes his decision one turn after everyone else so he's aware of the political consequences.
Cosmos1985
King
Sounds like a fine idea. What determines the chances of getting war declared upon, when you choose the first option?
The AI civs make the same choices as you do, so those that will declare war on you are those that chose the third option.
Every AI has a certain chance to remain Catholic (95% for Spain, 10% for Netherlands, for example) and if it does decide not to convert, it has the same chance to even join the counter-reformation and become a potential enemy of Protestants. Note that I chose the highest numbers here, the chances are lower for other civs.
Every AI has a certain chance to remain Catholic (95% for Spain, 10% for Netherlands, for example) and if it does decide not to convert, it has the same chance to even join the counter-reformation and become a potential enemy of Protestants. Note that I chose the highest numbers here, the chances are lower for other civs.
In other news, I've just uploaded a small but probably important change: controlled tiles will now only affect your stability if they are within the radius of a city. This should avoid stability penalties simply because you have cultured cities at the borders of your historical area. I've yet to see how this affects overall stability.
Cosmos1985
King
Ah sorry, I misunderstood it as the three choices were only for the human player. Excellent! Can you maybe give us the full disclosure with regards to which civs has which percentages?
I fear Catholicism might become a bit too strong... they get all the wonders AND a research bonus?
I think it would be more historically accurate if the protestants get a research and trade bonus (but not as much direct money) and the catholics get free catholicism+churches in new cities or something like that.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
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- 2,207
So a legendary city on a completely foreign land will only give the civ stability penalty for the 21 tiles it controls? Is this the right interpretation?
Also, peak/coast/ocean tiles are the only ones that do not give stability penalty, is that right?
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