Do Hardcore Players (non-modders) need User Friendly Modding Tools?

[Afforess]

I've read the OP, reformulated the question (Are civ3's mods better than civ4's mods ?) then answered. No.

Not quite.

See, the OP has (what he thinks as) an awesome idea (or 2) for a mod. He just has no technical skills (cause technical skills are for dumb engineers, not the intelligentsia), and wants to be able to press colored buttons for a few minutes (okay, 10 min top), and get this awesome mod so he can show off to his friends, and show everyone here how cool his idea is.

In reality, his idea is a dime a dozen (no offense, but coming up with the idea is not critical to modding. (I'd say I came up with less than half of my mods from my own ideas). And he doesn't want to spend months learning how to code. So he came to the forums to complain, and expects us to confirm his complains.

Well, Tough.

Moderator Action: Make your points, but please don't be rude. Thanks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[seasnake]

Look, I'm no expert computer programmer and even I've made a few mods for Civ IV. XML wasn't exactly hard to figure out. And if you network on the site you can get help with other things, really cool people who don't mind giving you a tip or showing you how they did something. And the artwork is often pretty accessible too, and there were tons of free programs.

If you want to mod something, just start poking around and I'm sure you'll figure it all out, and if you frequent the Creation forums with a specific question it won't be an issue. However, tip of the pros, have a specific question and at least have tried or read a tutorial first. That's a lot better than things like "How do I make this game better?"

So no, it doesn't need to be easier, you just need to dedicate a little spare time to figuring it out. But don't worry, it's not that hard, and it's fun when you do.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Hardcore players needing modding tools?

All hardcore players need is good games.

One could say amateur modders would want user-friendly modding tools, but that's the answer to a different question.

I think sometimes people are too quick to call "customisation" "modding". Real modding involves getting your hands dirty, not letting tools do 99% of the work for you. For example, using the world-builder in civ4 to create a scenario is not what I'd call modding. That said, I'm not denying that making a good scenario can require great skill.

 

[Cilpot]

I miss the CivIII scenario/map editor.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. On the one hand I love modding my own game, doing simple stuff that only tweaks the standard game. On the other hand, I'm in so much awe of the real modding community. The talent shown and hard work done out of pure love of the game is fantastic, and a priceless enhancement of the Civ experience. Kudos.

I wish I didn't have to pick between a Civ III type editor and complete modding opportunities. If I had to pick one, I'd go for the latter in a heartbeat. I'd get all the mods, and if I just invested some time to learn the modding platform I'd still be able to do my tweaks

 

[Thalassicus]

[hardcore modders] absolutely DO NOT want the average player to have access to super easy user-friendly modding tools.

• According to Steam I've spent about 1,570 hours modding Civ 5, which comes out to 56 hours per week on average.
• I like easy, user-friendly modding tools accessible for average players.

Did I just blow your mind?

 

[Zyxpsilon]

• According to Steam I've spent about 1,570 hours modding Civ 5, which comes out to 56 hours per week on average.
• I like easy, user-friendly modding tools accessible for average players.

Did I just blow your mind?

Yes!
But i really don't need a spyware tactic to calculate (or evaluate) how much sweat is dumped in actual indenting rather than test proofing "steps" recorded online.
Structured analysis start with references - declared.
Blame integers for looping zigma (&#425 flows.

 

[Ddude97]

I voted no, though I think there should be more than just yes or no like "not now" or something. It doesn't make sense for them to spend time and money on something that 1.) I think will be hardly used an 2.) Making "user-friendly" anything in my experience limits what you can do as an experienced modder, and that would the massive mods for civ4 impossible

 

[JohnnyW]

• According to Steam I've spent about 1,570 hours modding Civ 5, which comes out to 56 hours per week on average.
• I like easy, user-friendly modding tools accessible for average players.

Did I just blow your mind?

The bolded part did, yes.

I can't even begin to imagine how you have that much time to invest.

 

[Cope]

I've never been a 'hardcore modder' by any means, but I am a programmer in my 9 to 5. I sympathize with both sides of this argument, but I don't think it's an either-or situation. Actually, if Firaxis would just release the .dll SDK Civ 5 would have a pretty nice modding system, with easy to use tools on the one hand and real power through access to the core game on the other. Hell, we could even help fix the problems in the game.

 

[Thalassicus]

Hell, we could even help fix the problems in the game.

Fix problems for Firaxis so they can save time and money by simply adding the fixes to the game. I think it's win/win.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Fix problems for Firaxis so they can save time and money by simply adding the fixes to the game. I think it's win/win.

Look who's talkin'... some are already ahead and beyond!