Do I just suck?

[Zaimejs]

It feels like there is a new pattern in every game I try to play. I play Emperor, small map, random everything.

I have a plan from the start... I execute the plan, and I seem to be doing swell, but then there is one runaway civ that I can't do anything about... first the Celts... with one city were dominating the world. Then the Fricking Germans... not military at all... even with the GL and NC I was still behind in tech!

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Seems like something fundamental to be so far behind so fast. I think others have said that that's the way emperor is because the AI gets so many starting bonuses... is that right? I'm not sure it's even fun to play like that when I don't have a chance of doing anything early in the game but survive.

They get every WW... like... three techs ahead of me. And it just keeps going like that.

 

[fat_tonle]

Would obviously need more context, but it's about optimizing your turns. The AI does not receive enough bonuses on Emperor to pull greatly ahead, as long as you don't get off to a terrible start.

Are you growing first and foremost? That's obviously the most important thing, so review the ways you are optimizing growth without sacrificing global happiness. That's the number one issue on any difficulty.

Stack the bonuses. If you are playing a money game, beeline to currency, and purchase markets, banks, and Stock Exchanges as soon as the tech is researched. If you are playing a food game early on, purchase hospitals (aqueducts free with tradition) and Medical Labs when you get the tech. Obviously go for Hanging Gardens, Temple of Artemis, and growth beliefs (10%, 1+ food from resource(s), etc). Research goes hand in hand. You especially want to purchase buildings in peace time as that is where your money will be best spent, although obviously playing diplomatic game will encourage different avenues in expenditure. If you have a crazy population in the mid game, purchase Universities and get the free tech with Oxford University sooner than later. Then purchase public schools once the tech is researched.

Stack to your strengths and don't worry about making up ground in areas that don't provide immediate advantages. Everything else will take care of itself. That's not to say there isn't long term planning, but that will keep you close on the score board.

 

[HiI'mWalt]

Have you tried to attack the runaway? Lots of times if you can take just one of his towns it is enough to cripple him.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

To be frank, your problem is hard to analyze with the given data.

What is your CIV and your grand strategy? When is your NC up? How many cities / pop do you usually have? What is your general tech path? What is your desired victory condition? Do you set any city focus?

I usually play as Inca on emperor and use a "3-city-tradition" approach with early settler production, which works 95% of the time (with the remaining 5% being an unfriendly neighbor like Attila or Shaka attacking me on turn 50 with two dozen units).

Some random tips that might help:
(1) Forget about the GL and build settlers instead. Pump two out once your capital reaches size 3, settle them in a decent spot and you are good for the rest of the game. It sacrifices some early game science, but overall gives a stronger mid game, allowing you to snatch other great wonders like Notre Dam or Leaning Tower.
(2) Use internal trade routes to boost food production. This will mean less money in the short to medium turn, but more pop, which translates into more science and hammers.
(3) Start improving your cities early. Easiest way to do that is parking your scout or warrior next to a city state and taking their first worker once it appears. Build additional ones (~ 1 per city) as needed.
(4) Build an early shrine (my BO is usually: Scout -> Monument -> Shrine) to grab a good pantheon for your location. When in doubt, God King is always a nice early game boost for your capital.
(5) Try a different early game tech path. My mid/late game tech order is almost always the same, but the early game really depends on your surroundings. In general I'd suggest to always get Pottery first, then pick 2 luxury ressource techs. From there on it heavily depends on your Civ and the map. As Inca I usually rush The Wheel to connect all my cities ASAP and then get philosophy to get my NC running. After that I get construction to unlock Colloseums + Terrace farms and then either proceed to Education or Machinery, depending on the terrain around me.

If you want you can post a few save games (inital and around turns 50 + 100). That should help to check out what your problems might be.

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

Don't feel bad, I can just beat King consistently. Sometimes Emperor.

 

[Ryika]

If you're playing on Emporer and don't manage to outtech the AI in the Renaissance, then you're probably not putting enough effort in growing your cities. Food should always be your priority, Civil Service should be unlocked asap and you should already have farmed all fresh water tiles, once you're there. When you've unlocked universities, you'll want 10+ pop in every city (which should be easy if you built them early enough and opened with Tradition), so you can use science specialists. From that point on the Ai won't be able to keep up with you techwise.

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

So, Civil Service before Education, then? I'm often enticed by the Education and rush buy Universities and staff them for more science.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Science output is directly proportional to your population. This requires you to grow your cities as fast as possible. Send food caravans/cargo ships as this food is free. If you early wonder whore you will miss out on the choice spots which in the long run will be a detriment to you. As tradition supports 4 cities you should be settling at least 4 cities, when they all have universities they will more than make up for the science penalty.

If you wish to lead in science at the earliest opportunity you need to beeline Education, then Scientific Theory, then Plastics filling in the older techs when most people you have met have researched them. As mentioned earlier growth is everything and I personally beeline Fertilizer before Scientific Theory.

 

[Ryika]

So, Civil Service before Education, then?

Yes, pretty much always imho. Faster Universities give you a decent science boost, but without Civil Service to push your food-production, the specialists will just hurt your growth and stagnate your empire.

The only exception I could think of is if all your cities have a bunch of decent food-tiles AND almost no excess to fresh water at all, but such a scenario is extremely unlikely.

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

I will take this into consideration. Thanks! I avoid wonder building above Prince, except for cases when I feel I can take the Oracle (or if I start with a lot of stone and marble, Mausoleum).

The GL is dead to me.

 

[northernscribe]

I've found in my emperor games that I'll be ahead in tech, then behind, then, at least by industrial, I'm ahead. The AI being ahead by three techs doesn't mean you're going to lose. You just have to get ahead of them, eventually. And if you follow all the good advice I've seen here, it'll happen. get your universities up and running, use internal food routes to be able to fill out the great person slots, by industrial, you should have at least two academies and two great scientists, plus, if you're doing rationalism, you're getting a free tech, (also a free tech with oxford). That's a good burst with which to move past the AI, if you haven't already.
I don't hard build any wonders except for maybe oracle, until Leaning tower. (then I get a GE to build me forbidden palace).
I'm a war monger, so I don't worry about it. If someone's ahead of me in tech, taking their capitol will bring them down. behind in culture? take their cap and their great works. Behind in wonders? You guessed, most of the wonders are in AI caps. I understand this may not help if you're not a war monger, but even playing peacefully, you should be able to out tech the AI on emperor.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

So, Civil Service before Education, then?

How can you have education without civil service?

 

[danaphanous]

If you are consistently 3 techs behind then you will catch up in no time with spies over the Renaissance. That's not a bad tech lag, though obviously you don't want that all game.

I agree with the others. Put out more early cities and switch some of your caravans to growth, both result directly in more base science and are the best early-game investment.

 

[beetle]

OP, how many units are you building? Overly large armies seems to be a common self-handicap that keeps folks from progressing. Of course, what’s holding me back is that I tend to go too far in the other direction...

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

How can you have education without civil service?

...Oops. Here's the laugh for today, folks!

 

[Zaimejs]

Okay, I'm going to try the growth optimization. I think my problem is that I'm trying too many things... too many paths. I want religion, money, science etc. Settler gets out too late... and that's that.

In this current game, i was China and I had four campsites in my capital zone, so I took the pantheon to get the food bonus per camp. I thought I would be rocking and rolling... my city was about 13 while Berlin was 19. I have no idea how he could have gotten 6 bigger than me in that time?

I take tradition and go all the way through to maximize growth. Sometimes I'll take the Honor opening to hunt barbarians. Maybe that's a mistake.

I will avoid the early wonder strategy and just go for a solid city plan. We'll see how that goes. I should restart the same exact game with a different plan to see if I can do better.

One big problem is that my capital seemed to be on a perfect plot, hill, river next to a mountain with a few choice desert hills. I built petra and thought that would be the winner... but I'm still way behind.

On the shore south of the capital, there are about 5 fish and crab resources that are out of reach, and I couldn't build a city down there because the borders of the capital were overlapping... so a choice second city spot was taken away. Meh.

I hate germany

 

[Gamewizard]

You need to prioritize food caravans, or better yet food cargo ships, into your capital. Completing tradition asap for the free aqueducts is also top priority. And of course staying in positive happiness above all else to avoid the -75% growth penalty.

 

[beetle]

Okay, I'm going to try the growth optimization. I think my problem is that I'm trying too many things... too many paths. I want religion, money, science etc. Settler gets out too late... and that's that.

Not sure it was said, but purchasing a settler helps with this dilemma. Sell early luxes (all of them, so long as happiness is not negative) and resources for gpt, even if the market price is low. An early golden age is much less valuable than an early settler.

In this current game, i was China and I had four campsites in my capital zone, so I took the pantheon to get the food bonus per camp. I thought I would be rocking and rolling... my city was about 13 while Berlin was 19. I have no idea how he could have gotten 6 bigger than me in that time?

Camps, even with the pantheon, don’t give much food. If Berlin has one wheat + granary, it will grow faster than you.

Sometimes I'll take the Honor opening to hunt barbarians. Maybe that's a mistake.

The consensus of this board would be yes, that’s a mistake.

I will avoid the early wonder strategy and just go for a solid city plan. We'll see how that goes. I should restart the same exact game with a different plan to see if I can do better.

That sounds good, please report back. Generally people here shun the idea, but I think that kind of reloading has really taught me to war and build better.

One big problem is that my capital seemed to be on a perfect plot, hill, river next to a mountain with a few choice desert hills. I built petra and thought that would be the winner... but I'm still way behind.

Sounds good! But Petra is overrated. How many dessert tiles are you talking about? Four camps + dessert sounds unusual to me. Dessert folklore is just about as OP as people say. Is that an option?

On the shore south of the capital, there are about 5 fish and crab resources that are out of reach, and I couldn't build a city down there because the borders of the capital were overlapping... so a choice second city spot was taken away. Meh.

I am having trouble visualizing this, so an early screen shot would be nice. Coastal starts are slow, but an expo that the capital builds work boats for can grow amazing fast. With the benefit of hindsight, it might be worth settling in a different spot. But hill + mountain + river is hard to beat!

I hate germany

You don’t want things to be too easy!

 

[danaphanous]

Capital pops soar pretty fast for the AI on Emperor, Immortal, and Deity. You can keep up either having a good food spot and emphasizing early growth with workers or having a second city immediately feed your capital with a growth caravan/ship. Note that in my experience on emperor the AI typically get good pop growth but neglect keeping up in improvements so just because he's 3 pop higher doesn't mean his city is better. Have a worker stay by your capital and spam out all the farms you can find, then go for civil service as some have said. You'll start pulling ahead in pop eventually if you play it right, especially with tradition finished quickly.

 

[Sherlock]

You need to prioritize food caravans, or better yet food cargo ships, into your capital. Completing tradition asap for the free aqueducts is also top priority. And of course staying in positive happiness above all else to avoid the -75% growth penalty.

I've recently started using tradition and it is VERY powerful, especially the ender (free aqueducts). I used to wait for the free Settler, but now I always build a settler as soon as my city hits size 2.

It's a very good strategy.