Do You Want XCOM Squad in game?

[Peng Qi]

I'm not sure it really counts as an abstraction, though.

Well it's either abstract or it's concrete. It can't be both, nor can it be neither. I'm pretty sure you'd rather it be abstract.

 

[Ezumiyr]

I think the problem is not if Civ5 should or not include some fantasy/scifi stuff.

But why are there X-Com squads if there no aliens? It does not make sense! If they put X-com in the game, they must add at least one alien event / alien barbarians or something...


I can understand giant robots, because there are useful for big futuristic wars against other countries, but X-Com does NOT fight other humans.
So an X-Com Squad unit does NOT make sense, as a Dragonborn unit does NOT make sense except if there are dragons in the game, or a Jedi unit if there is no Force mechanics in the game.

 

[Peng Qi]

I think the problem is not if Civ5 should or not include some fantasy/scifi stuff.

But why are there X-Com squads if there no aliens? It does not make sense! If they put X-com in the game, they must add at least one alien event / alien barbarians or something...


I can understand giant robots, because there are useful for big futuristic wars against other countries, but X-Com does NOT fight other humans.
So an X-Com Squad unit does NOT make sense, as a Dragonborn unit does NOT make sense except if there are dragons in the game, or a Jedi unit if there is no Force mechanics in the game.

Actually there's absolutely nothing practical about building giant, bipedal robots. There's nothing they can do that some other vehicle couldn't do better.

 

[SemperFi2382]

Actually there's absolutely nothing practical about building giant, bipedal robots. There's nothing they can do that some other vehicle couldn't do better.

Details, details.

More likely to see some sort of exo-suit first, which is something the military has been playing around with.

 

[bouncymischa]

I just find it somewhat surreal that every complaint about the X-Com Infantry could also be levelled against the Science Victory... but I see very few complaints about that.

I suppose that it's simply because the Science Victory has been part of Civ from the first... but you'd think it'd still cause a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in the players.

 

[SemperFi2382]

I just find it somewhat surreal that every complaint about the X-Com Infantry could also be levelled against the Science Victory... but I see very few complaints about that.

I suppose that it's simply because the Science Victory has been part of Civ from the first... but you'd think it'd still cause a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in the players.

If you look back a few pages, I do make that complaint. Although, you are right, few people do really level the same complaint.

 

[Peng Qi]

I just find it somewhat surreal that every complaint about the X-Com Infantry could also be levelled against the Science Victory... but I see very few complaints about that.

I suppose that it's simply because the Science Victory has been part of Civ from the first... but you'd think it'd still cause a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in the players.

Let's throw another layer of absurdity on there: why do you win when you achieve science victory? So what, all the other nations just said "eff it, he's in space" and threw down their arms? What if there's someone who's only a year behind you and has way more industrial might? You don't think they could just send ten times as many ships and overrun your exclave? Or just launch a transgalactic ballistic neutron missile into space to chase your space ship?

There's hardly any logic behind anything that happens in Civ. People just don't like "XCOM" because it comes from another game and that's it. It has nothing to do with realism, plausibility, being too abstract, or anything else. They just don't like the reference being made.

 

[Snoopaloop]

People just don't like "XCOM" because it comes from another game and that's it. It has nothing to do with realism, plausibility, being too abstract, or anything else. They just don't like the reference being made.

Wrong. I don't like XCOM because I don't enjoy silly made up units. The reference to some game I've never cared for does not contribute one bit to my dislike of the unit. If they were generic futuristic, abstract units I would still not want them to be included.

Maybe generalize your statement. I'm sure "some" or "a few" people just don't like xcom because it comes from another game.

EDIT: The science victory can be turned off. The GDR can not, so I assume the XCOM unit can not either. That comparison doesn't fit well in my opinion.

 

[Peng Qi]

Wrong. I don't like XCOM because I don't enjoy silly made up units. The reference to some game I've never cared for does not contribute one bit to my dislike of the unit. If they were generic futuristic, abstract units I would still not want them to be included.

Maybe generalize your statement. I'm sure "some" or "a few" people just don't like xcom because it comes from another game.

EDIT: The science victory can be turned off. The GDR can not, so I assume the XCOM unit can not either. That comparison doesn't fit well in my opinion.

OK, so what about the Diplomatic victory?

"A bunch of tiny states that are no threat to me selected him as the world leader. Guess I have to submit to their decision..."

Or the culture victory?

"But...but we're enlightened! You have to stop killing us!"

Or Liberty/Freedom states building state-run supermarkets in their cities?

Or Gandhi nuking your ass into the stone age?

The XCOM unit is not even close to the biggest abstraction or least realistic thing in this game.

 

[Snoopaloop]

OK, so what about

Civilization is a historical based strategy game, not a historical simulation. Ghandhi nuking, liberty run supermarkets, culture/diplomatic victories do not bother me because they all are historical based gameplay abstractions.

When I responded to you it was about your absolutely incorrect definitive statement you made about people's opinions. The edit was just noting that the science victory could be turned off if it is too off based for people to enjoy. I don't necessarily love the futuristic components of the science victory myself, but I feel its a necessary gameplay mechanic to have so I put up with it. The GDR (modded out of my games) and XCOM (will be modded) units are completely unnecessary additions to the game.

If I wanted to play a science fiction turn based strategy game I would play Alpha Centuri or something, not Civ. Likewise, as a big sci-fi fan, I would hate to see a Greek phalanx protecting a bunch of grunts when I am running through the Halo universe. I guess my main gripe is game immersion, GDR/XCOM breaks it for me.

 

[PhilBowles]

Why is this thread 12 pages long when so far as I know there's still been no confirmation this unit will actually be in the game and wasn't specifically designed as a showcase at an event where the developers could be sure both Civ and XCOM fans would be in attendance?

Their desperation to show it off still seems to scream "Look at what we made for this show! Let's get our money's-worth by showing it off again the next morning!" That is not typical behaviour for any developer at a convention showcasing something that will actually be in the final product - they're much more likely to want to tease something new in any extra time rather than show off Poland or trade routes again. The only obvious motive for showcasing that one unit so thoroughly, and going out of their way to show off its animation (something they didn't do with, say, siege towers or winged hussars) is if they developed that animation only for PAX and wanted to get as much value from something that will never be seen again outside mods as possible. Even their reasoning for including it in their showcase was bizarre - why do we need an end-game Paratrooper any more obviously than an end-game Marine, Scout or other unique unit type? They just seem to have prepared something to say so that they had an excuse to show the screen for as long as possible.

The only "confirmation" I've seen has been articles from journalists reporting events at PAX who have no more inside information than anybody else outside Firaxis. Firaxis made a MechaGodzilla graphic and icon too (albeit no animation that we know), and a fuss was made about that ruining the game too before people finally accepted it was a joke.

 

[Biologist]

Why is this thread 12 pages long when so far as I know there's still been no confirmation this unit will actually be in the game[?]

Largely because people who have free time generally love to debate things. As I've said previously, I'm not convinced the XCOM squad is in either. That said, it's fun to debate about it and watch others debate, as long as you remember not to take the subject at hand too seriously.

 

[Snoopaloop]

"Why are you all debating this..."
"...here's my speculation to add to the thread."

There was a fuss about Mechazilla and it was never included. There was a fuss about the GDR (see the avatar for example ) and it is in. Fussing is all part of the pre-release excitement!

 

[Peng Qi]

When I responded to you it was about your absolutely incorrect definitive statement you made about people's opinions.

Well, I mean, I could hate the moon because I think cheese is gross but...that opinion wouldn't be particularly relevant to any conversation that anyone has ever had about anything.

 

[bouncymischa]

People just don't like "XCOM" because it comes from another game and that's it. It has nothing to do with realism, plausibility, being too abstract, or anything else. They just don't like the reference being made.

Admittedly, there is more variety in the complaints than that. Certainly, there have been those that felt it's an advertising gimmick, although whenever I think of "X-Com" I think of the 1990s Microprose game, so I can't help but think of it as an homage to a classic from the same company that made the original Civ, and not an advertising spiel for the recent reboot.

There's also been complaints about the canonicity of the X-Com concept, in that aliens have never appeared in the Civilization universe (as opposed to, say, SimCity where one could fight off mutant monsters and alien invasions). Although it is curious to wonder how these people feel about the Alpha Centauri franchise, which did have canon aliens. Is Alpha Centauri part of the Civilization canon?

Many of the other complaints have largely revolved around the perception of Civilization as a serious historical simulation game. There are those who argue that Civilization should be purely about history, and thus not feature any elements from the future (which makes me wonder how they feel about technologies like "Fusion" that aren't viable yet). Snoopaloop (as an example) complains that futuristic elements ruin the sense of immersion in historical gameplay. There are also those who feel that less-than-serious elements such as the GDR and X-Com Squad are too whimsical for the game, presumably feeling that the game should be more serious in tone.

I was just somewhat bemused because nearly all of these complaints can be applied to the spaceship project, as well. We're nowhere near making a viable starship -- heck, even reaching Mars likely won't occur for a decade or two, at least. It's a whimsical reference to another game series that takes place using fictional, fantastic technologies in the future, rather than history. It's basically like every single complaint wrapped up into a single package. X3 And yet, most people go "Oh, it's part of the game, so I accept it". It seems oddly dissonant.

Who knows, perhaps in Civ 6 we'll see a more appropriate science victory -- I still think building the LHC and discovering the Higgs Boson would be a better conclusion for it, and would fit more with the "historical simulation" concept.

On the other hand, in the end it's Firaxis' game to make and they'll choose what to include or not based on their own vision. I suspect most of the complaints are really because everyone has their own personal interpretation of what the game should be, and given the opportunity they'd probably go "Hey Firaxis, make the game I want, not the game you want to make."

 

[Deggial]

A very sensible post! Thanks!

I just had to giggle a little bit while I was meditating on the fact that the Higgs Boson was actually detected in july 2012. Shouldn't the world have ended already, as somedody did "win" the game?

By the way: A spaceship to Mars would have been okay for me, too. Alpha Centauri is mainly a reference to all the civ-games so far. Some things can not be changed without the risc of an uprise...

 

[RX2000]

They already have the GDR in the game..... Might as well include an XCOM Squad.

As a general rule I dont like these types of units, but since Civ games cover all of history, why cant they include a little of the future also? Normally I win my games before future units become available though anyways.

 

[bouncymischa]

A very sensible post! Thanks!

I just had to giggle a little bit while I was meditating on the fact that the Higgs Boson was actually detected in july 2012. Shouldn't the world have ended already, as somedody did "win" the game?

You're welcome. :3

Perhaps the world/game did end on December 21st, 2012, and we're just in the ending credits! D:

Either that, or someone's hitting the "One more turn" button every year...?

 

[Leugi]

...Mechazilla...

Wait... What?

 

[Snoopaloop]

Wait... What?

Was referencing this old joke.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457816