Does Firaxis know how to do math?

[Worldsapart]

City states, 500 gold gets me 85 influence.
With Philanthropy under the Patronage policy, you get gold gets to city states produce 25% more influence.
Now I get 100 influence for 500 gold. Last time I checked, in my head and on a calculator, 25% of 85 was 21.25. So 21.25+85= not 100, it's supposed to be 106.25.

So apparently it means you only get 25% more than the original 40 at 250 gold, giving you 50 and then they just double it.

This game is ******ed. I really wish I knew when and where it was making its calculations.

 

[Azedenkae]

They round it to the nearest... 25. So for that calculation, they round it down to 100.

 

[Worldsapart]

That's so funny if it's true. And if not it's still really funny.

 

[Lanstro]

I think it's also a little more complex than that. The influence increase seems to be also based on how long ago you last gifted the city money. I've noticed that when I feed a city state only 250 gold at a time, the influence gains for all 3 gift options reduce over time, down to a baseline of 25 influence per 250 gold, at epic speed.

I think it's working as intended, rounded to the nearest 5 influence.

 

[tm01xx]

The computer is know how to do math but it is just the programmer is stupid of knowing how to use the computer.

 

[The_J]

Is it this problem here?
If yes: Can you provide a savegame?

 

[Sock Bramson]

$50/$60 x Y(number of purchasers) = profit.

Yeah, they can probably do math.

(note: I actually like the game and am not accusing Fireaxis of money-grubbing; still, methinks they know how to turn a buck or two. )

[note 2: I suppose a " - production cost " addendum should be added to the equation for more veracity]

 

[Sock Bramson]

Oh, and I know I already got yelled because of this kind of thing earlier, but... tm01xx... really? I'm trying my hardest to resist reverting into grammar-Nazi mode, but... bwuh? Something tells me the programmers are a good deal more proficient with computers than your spelling gives them credit. They made a fairly complex video game; I believe they know a thing or two about using computers.

If you are from a non-English speaking country I can cut you some slack, but still: give the programmers a bit of the credit they deserve, eh?

 

[tm01xx]

Oh, and I know I already got yelled because of this kind of thing earlier, but... tm01xx... really? I'm trying my hardest to resist reverting into grammar-Nazi mode, but... bwuh? Something tells me the programmers are a good deal more proficient with computers than your spelling gives them credit. They made a fairly complex video game; I believe they know a thing or two about using computers.

If you are from a non-English speaking country I can cut you some slack, but still: give the programmers a bit of the credit they deserve, eh?

I am a programmer as well so let me explain to you something. Programmers are supposed to be good (or smart?) but in real life, it is not always. Everyone can today go to any kind of school to study one or two certificates in few months and can already name themselves as programmer. However, there are levels to clarify programmers and good programmers are only people who (1) have some IQ in brain and (2) a bag of experience in their hand so that they can deal with challenges at work. The devs team in Firaxis don't have them either.

Why I say they are not?

1. They took 5 years to develop the buggy software that we all have known. 5 years to do just an unfinished game showing that the team is absolutely poor and low quality.

2. The team leader is about 26 years old and this is his first game. That tells you something about inexperience? And lots of poor game design that people in this forum have pointed out proved that.

3. I haven't looked at the game's code but just see how long the game takes each turn (30 seconds in late huge map game) tells you how poorly they implemented it. And I haven't mentioned about crashing due to high graphic settings, incompatibility OS, etc.

And in addition, this is turn-based game. In programming, it is not complex as you're thinking. It should require very little system resource rather than the civ5 currently consumes (according to 2K forum, in huge map, it eats up to 2.6 GB of memory).

I really want to give them some credit but hardly.

 

[sansavarous]

Nice thread steal tm01xx, looks like you might want to start you own thread.

Back to the OP.

I've not looked into the numbers, however your math is correct. The calculation for influence may be made from a different base number or some decisions were made by Fireaxis to place some limits that we don't know about.

 

[Hormagaunt]

City states, 500 gold gets me 85 influence.
With Philanthropy under the Patronage policy, you get gold gets to city states produce 25% more influence.
Now I get 100 influence for 500 gold. Last time I checked, in my head and on a calculator, 25% of 85 was 21.25. So 21.25+85= not 100, it's supposed to be 106.25.

So apparently it means you only get 25% more than the original 40 at 250 gold, giving you 50 and then they just double it.

This game is ******ed. I really wish I knew when and where it was making its calculations.

The same problem crops up elsewhere. As Rome, if you've got a building in your capital, you get a 25% bonus towards its construction in other cities. So, turn X, my Granary was 1 turn from completion in Rome. It was a cost of exactly 100 in one of my other cities. I didn't start building yet because I wanted that bonus. Next turn, Rome was finished and I turned to the other city. The new cost for a Granary? 80 hammers. Last time I checked, 25% of 100 was 25, not 20.

 

[r_rolo1]

The OP is clearly a trick question ... Firaxis never knew how to make maths Previous versions of civ games are filled with stuff like this, especially the vanilla versions .

 

[Ashwind]

The same problem crops up elsewhere. As Rome, if you've got a building in your capital, you get a 25% bonus towards its construction in other cities. So, turn X, my Granary was 1 turn from completion in Rome. It was a cost of exactly 100 in one of my other cities. I didn't start building yet because I wanted that bonus. Next turn, Rome was finished and I turned to the other city. The new cost for a Granary? 80 hammers. Last time I checked, 25% of 100 was 25, not 20.

Actually, this depends on how you look at it.

If the game actually reduces it from 100 to 80, they should change the wording to say "reduces cost to build by 20%.

If you look at it, a 25% increase of 80 hammers is 100. While a reduction of 20% of 100 is 80. They really should change the text if the actual game does a reduction instead of adding production hammers while building it.

 

[Crezth]

City states, 500 gold gets me 85 influence.
With Philanthropy under the Patronage policy, you get gold gets to city states produce 25% more influence.
Now I get 100 influence for 500 gold. Last time I checked, in my head and on a calculator, 25% of 85 was 21.25. So 21.25+85= not 100, it's supposed to be 106.25.

So apparently it means you only get 25% more than the original 40 at 250 gold, giving you 50 and then they just double it.

This game is ******ed. I really wish I knew when and where it was making its calculations.

Huh. I guess Firaxis are all idiots.

You are the smartest man alive, Worldsapart.
Moderator Action: We don't allow any trolling here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[isthmus]

Doesn't the influence per gold decrease over time? Could be that the influence decreased on the turn you adopted philanthropy. If it dropped to 80 influence for 500 gold that turn then it would work out. This is a bit unlikely though.

Then again, % in ciV is additive, if there are some hidden % values and then you add 25% to that, it won't be the same as multiplying by 1.25 (which is implied from the description).

 

[TheBlackHole]

The same problem crops up elsewhere. As Rome, if you've got a building in your capital, you get a 25% bonus towards its construction in other cities. So, turn X, my Granary was 1 turn from completion in Rome. It was a cost of exactly 100 in one of my other cities. I didn't start building yet because I wanted that bonus. Next turn, Rome was finished and I turned to the other city. The new cost for a Granary? 80 hammers. Last time I checked, 25% of 100 was 25, not 20.

A car driving 40 mph will cover 40 miles in 60 minutes.
A car driving 50 mph (25% faster) will cover 40 miles in 48 minutes.
48 minutes is 80% of 60 minutes. So a car driving 25% faster (a 25% bonus to speed, you could say) gets to the destination in 20% less time.

The 25% faster car would not make it in 45 minutes, as your math would imply.

 

[Sock Bramson]

I'll preface this by saying that I do NOT fancy myself a programmer. I've taken a couple (i.e. 2) programing classes along the years, though, so I at least have a general idea of what these guys have to deal with. As a programmer yourself, tm, can you honestly say that you've never made a mistake? Small, seemingly insignificant typos can cause huge problems for a program. Can you also claim that you've never gone back to an old line of code and realized that it could have been written more efficiently? Perhaps you had a deadline for a class project and your teacher was breathing down your neck to get it done by the release date. (*wink wink*)

I'm not saying that CiV doesn't have any issues, but I really haven't had to deal with anything major. Most of my beef with the game as-is has to do with balance and AI issues. Despite these minor bugaboos, I still have a great time with the game. On the performance side of things, I don't run into longer turn-times until the last 50 or so turns of a Huge map, and even then it's more like 20 seconds max, not 30. My computer is pretty nice and all, but it isn't top of the line by any stretch of the imagination. (hell, I built it over 2 years ago; still plays CiV like a champ ) CIV had its own slow-down issues at the end of huge games, but they were never enough to lessen my enjoyment; it's the same case with V.

Have a bit of faith in the Devs. They've already patched several problems in under a month and have at least started addressing some of the balance issues. It's more than unfair to try to call them stupid, especially when that adds approximately zero to the further improvement of the game.

edit: Oh, btw tm, where are you from? This isn't a lame belated-racism troll-attempt, I'm honestly just curious.

 

[TheBlackHole]

I'll preface this by saying that I do NOT fancy myself a programmer. I've taken a couple (i.e. 2) programing classes along the years, though, so I at least have a general idea of what these guys have to deal with. As a programmer yourself, tm, can you honestly say that you've never made a mistake? Small, seemingly insignificant typos can cause huge problems for a program. Can you also claim that you've never gone back to an old line of code and realized that it could have been written more efficiently? Perhaps you had a deadline for a class project and your teacher was breathing down your neck to get it done by the release date. (*wink wink*)

I actually am a lead software designer at my company so I do know how hard it is to get EVERYTHING right. And of all my programming buddies at other companies, we all know what it feels like when you simply do something stupid... not because you are stupid, but because of constraints and stress, things just get lost in the shuffle.

Thinking of a massive undertaking like a flagship commercial gaming product like Civ makes my head hurt... considering that you're writing a huge, complex game being used by millions of people hammering away at every little piece and module you write.

Large pieces of software that have silly mistakes are NOT because they're being programmed by "dumb programmers". It's because there aren't ENOUGH programmers to cover the task. Calling Firaxis developers stupid is absolutely unjustified. EVERYONE makes mistakes, and it takes the combined effort of company to assure those mistakes don't make it to the final release (that includes not only developers but also QA, testers, management, etc.). However, if you have a team that's simply not large enough for the project, your team can be brilliant, but if it's simply too massive of an undertaking, your product WILL have errors. Alternatively, if you just don't have enough time, errors WILL pop up. "Stupid" errors pop up all the time even from the best people. Furthermore, if those people are overworked, stressed, up against massive pressure, or there simply aren't enough man-hours to test and cover every little thing... obviously, that's no better either.

So people should really be blaming Firaxis for incompetently managing the project and the final product, not the individual programmers. Or, alternatively, people can blame 2K for imposing deadlines. Or people can blame whoever is to blame for not ponying up the cash to hire enough people for development, QA, or testing. And yes, people can blame a little bit on the developers for missing some things... but blaming ALL of it solely on the devs is misguided and unjustified.

 

[Sock Bramson]

By the by, does anyone else here hate Python? Something about that program language just made me want to kill it with a combination of infinite loops and fire.

 

[Pragmatic]

Don't know if this has been suggested yet (it wasn't in the first half-dozen posts that, admittedly, I skimmed over), but do you have the Patronage social that gives you a minimum of 20 influence?

If so, it's an increase from 65 (85-20) to 80 (100-20), or 123%.