Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

[vadalaz]

[...] however this map is not so bad really.

That's true - IMO the worst maps are the likes of Rainforest and Arborea where you really need indirect fire and good road systems. A city surrounded by jungle hills is just such a pain to attack.

 

[mbbcam]

Farming experience from CSs is quite overrated mechanism imo. (I prefer to gain experience in real wars)

It's 138T and you've just conquered your potential ally (on this turn I have usually at least half capitals on pangea).

I'd attack Venice and Japan or Austria with CBs first.

I'm not a good player, I'm afraid, and I seem to have reached my ceiling. No matter what I do, I don't improve. I'd love to be able to do what you suggest, but it seems to be beyond my ability. Better players obviously do some things differently, but I've yet to understand what they are doing that makes the difference. There seems to be some sort of ability to analyse the map and act according to its opportunities and limitations, combined with superior tactical ability.

I've actually tried playing this map three times, so far. The best attempt involved going Tradition, but I assume that if you are contemplating a CB rush you would go Liberty.

Any other hints would be welcome.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

I've actually tried playing this map three times, so far. The best attempt involved going Tradition, but I assume that if you are contemplating a CB rush you would go Liberty.

Yes liberty, but as this map is continents - tradition for fast navigation is worth consider too.

 

[DonManInBlack]

Dom: there are some things you need to fix in your playing.

1. Scout better. You need to find all the city states, natural wonders and plan your game ahead.
2. City locations. If the two that are near the coast were ON the coast, they would be twice as big with cargoe boats.
3. Science. Its really low. And mainly because your cities are too small.

but mbcam is right. this map is traaaaaaash

2. Yes but I wanted to build on a hill, on the screenshot I realized that I could have build the capital on the sheep?!
3. Yeah thats right I've some problems with managing balance between production and food

 

[hiawafer]

coast is better than hill cuz cargoe boats are the most overpowered thing in the game

good luck with your management in future games

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Your capital location is pretty bad, there is no hammers. I will attempt to play your save but first I'll use IGE to remove the capital and respawn the starting settler and look for something better.

Could you provide a starting save for this map with a settler?

 

[beest]

Right, I'm gonna give this deity CB/XB rush a go. Only played a couple of civ5 games in 2016 so far so I am a bit rusty. This is different from my normal play, I usually start a bit more peacefully and may start attacking around cannons/artillery.

My first try was with China, and actually a lot of stuff went wrong: I went for honor to try to go for CB rush (later realized I should have picked liberty for that, but honor is so much more fun), this ended up being a chokunu-rush, took one capital by turn 120 and only then I realised that actually I am playing a fractal and only one other capital is near and it is surrounded by forested mountains...duh..I guess I should have checked that before. Not much use for that range promotion there. I have got some really nice promoted units thanks to shooting at a CS for x turns. Also, I only founded one other city and was hitting the supply cap a bit too quick, so that'll be three cities next time.

Oh yes, and half the world dows me after just taking one cap.. ttsst you guys are really short tempered. Talking of hypocrisy, even Bismarck is angry despite the fact he did just took a capital himself (I guess he forgot about that ). Still, perfectly winnable game, but that was not what I'm after..

Something completely different, why do I never here someone advising to chop settlers? This is what I usually do, but I am not sure how widespread this is..

 

[consentient]

I chop everything in the early game. I go after Forests even before Lux. I don't care about early unhappiness while I link up my lux, it's only ever for a turn or two or three. Production is king in the early game, economy in the midgame and science and culture in the lategame.

Beest, you should make sure you have most of the world scouted by the time you start your wars. And yes, Fractal is more difficult for rushes. Start with NQ Pangaea and practise on there until you've perfected it. Then try some other map types.

 

[DanutMS]

Just want to say a big thank you to consentient and everyone else who posted on this topic (well, with one exception). I've read the opening post countless times, and now finished reading through the whole topic.
I'm one of the worst players this game has ever seen, but with help from what I've read I just managed to wipe off the map on emperor for the first time (had only won on emperor before on SV, which I can constantly do, but my military was always bad). And what made me happier is that I made a lot of mistakes I realised myself a bit later in this particular game, and it still was reasonably easy, so that means I can do better than that. Will be moving up to Immortal now, see how things go there.
So, thanks for the amazing guide and all the tips posted here. They really help noob players like me.

One question I do have: around which turn (or cap population) should i be looking to build my settlers on Honor starts? I can get the timing on Liberty (as it's basically "wait for cr, build another settler ASAP"), but tried to play around with Honor and really fudged things up. My guess is that poor settler timing had to do with it. I know there are some videos that have been recommended around here, but still am watching Acken China LP, so haven't gotten to the Honor ones (so yes, that is a bit of a lazy question, but if anyone wants to answer I'd be very happy).

PS: In case any noob player like me reads this: don't build buildings. That single piece of advice is the most important thing to get into your mind. I was just amazed how it actually is possible to have the armies people talk about around here, even without doing everything perfectly, just by not throwing hammers away on buildings.

 

[phryxolydian]

Pop 3 with some good hills/sheep is already good enough to build settlers in 9-10 turns and, if you have some forest to chop, even better. Sometimes pop 3 comes very early (pop ruins or 3 food tiles) and you might not have even finished building your 2nd scout/monument so, just finish that and maybe get an archer out to start gaining xp and a shrine if it's really, really worth it. Better players than myself also go for granaries first if there's at least 2 tiles that would immediately benefit. I don't like the lost gpt myself but, hey, this at least means your cap will grow faster as soon as you're done with settlers, so take that into account. Just bear in mind the happiness and you should be alright, settling on mining luxuries is often a very good choice.

 

[mbbcam]

You can make yourself a kind of "reverse countdown". Assuming you are playing on Deity, you want to start a war against your nearest opponent with Crossbows by about turn 105 (roughly speaking). At that point you probably want to have three cities with enough population to support eight to ten Crossbows and a few other units, otherwise you will hit the unit support cap, which reduces your production in your cities. (The screen that shows all your military units also has a figure for how many more units you can build before you reach the unit support cap.) That means that you want to research Machinery and have enough money to upgrade your Composite Bows by turn 105. You cannnot do this unless you get three cities with Libraries in good time, so that you can build the National College by about turn 90-95. Earlier is better. One of the limiting factors is how quickly you can build the Libraries, particularly in the last city you found. If you haven't founded three cities by about turn 45-50, you are probably not going to make it (though it does depend on various factors, such as how much production you have in a city). Bear in mind that it takes quite a long time to reseach Philosopy, and quite a long time to build the National College. In my experience, being late by about ten turns can make a huge difference to the mid part of the game. (Trade routes that give you Science can shorten the time it takes to research Philosophy, so they are worth factoring in.) All this is a complicated way of saying that, in my view, you need to found your cities pretty damned fast, and found them in areas with high production. Having a load of food and no production is no good at all, so you want to be careful about where you place your cities. Yesterday I played a game in which I built two Settlers as soon as the capital reached Pop 3, and managed to get to Crossbows earlier than I have ever done before in a game. So yes, build Settlers as soon and as quickly as possible, I would say, and don't spend ten turns marching them to some distant site just because it has a Lux. You can get some Happiness from garrisoning a unit in the city. If in doubt, you could even make yourself a spreadsheet with all the build and research times for various things, so that you know what your targets and possibilites are -- under the pretty pixels, the game is all about numbers.

 

[stevepete1]

Just wanted to say thank you Consentient and others for these excellent suggestions. Playing happily on Deity now with enhanced user interface. Your strategies and tactics are awesome.

 

[HeliosDisciple]

How do you even take a city on Deity when the AI can damn near one-shot anything in range from turn 35 on? I've been bashing my head against this difficulty for a week now and the only cities I've managed to capture were when I was the Huns, got a Ram from an ancient ruins within 5 turns and then immediately slammed it into a city.

If I manage to get a ranged unit up to Logistics, I can move in, shoot, and move back out, but until then you move in, shoot, get half your health knocked off (if you're lucky), then have to run away and cry for a few turns before you can shoot again. Or you just get vaporized like Zeus himself got tired of your crap and dropped a thunderbolt on the unit.

And even if your ranged dudes have logistics or ranged (which take too damn long to get so even if you do get it the ai just runs them over with its infinite carpet) your worthless-*** melee dudes don't so they get erased as they trundle over to attack the city.

 

[mbbcam]

How do you even take a city on Deity when the AI can damn near one-shot anything in range from turn 35 on? I've been bashing my head against this difficulty for a week now and the only cities I've managed to capture were when I was the Huns, got a Ram from an ancient ruins within 5 turns and then immediately slammed it into a city.

If I manage to get a ranged unit up to Logistics, I can move in, shoot, and move back out, but until then you move in, shoot, get half your health knocked off (if you're lucky), then have to run away and cry for a few turns before you can shoot again. Or you just get vaporized like Zeus himself got tired of your crap and dropped a thunderbolt on the unit.

And even if your ranged dudes have logistics or ranged (which take too damn long to get so even if you do get it the ai just runs them over with its infinite carpet) your worthless-*** melee dudes don't so they get erased as they trundle over to attack the city.

Watch this video -- it's really worth it:

It shows one of the best players of the game capturing a city with Composite Bows. He attacks a capital at about 15 minutes into the video. In fact, the whole series of videos is very instructive.

 

[KingVercingetorix]

Hello warmongers. This is my first post on this website after several months of reading various posts. I know it is rather quiet here now and that the OP no longer uses this forum but I thought I would write a post anyway. Firstly I would like to thank the OP for this wonderful guide, I truly appreciate the fact he took the time to write such a comprehensive guide based on his wealth of knowledge.

I'm here because I want to improve my Deity ability, I'm looking for criticisms on my first Deity domination victory. I will attach the initial turn 0 save and the save just before the last capital is taken. The capital is on zero health and just requires the adjacent Landship to perform the killing strike. Yes you read that correctly, Landship! My CB rush, XB rush dynamite beeline ended up being a long and exhaustive turn 292 victory. But it was my first Deity domination win so I guess the turn time isn't the most important thing.

My love for Civ 5 started in November 2016. Prior to then I didn't know anything about the Civ franchise. I had heard the name but didn't know what it was about. November last year I watched a YouTube video and the game looked interesting so I thought I'd give it a go. I was hooked immediately, "just one more turn". I gave the game an hour and it would take a week. I was dreadful to begin with. My first two full games played on Warlord ended in time defeats. I just didn't understand the concepts of the game at first. After watching several series on YouTube I had learned enough to get my first win. A violent science victory with Denmark on Warlord. That was followed by a violent science victory with Greece on Prince. At this point I wanted a challenge so I jumped straight into the deep end and went from Prince to Deity. I searched on the internet the best way to win on Deity and came across this guide. This guide directed me to Acken's China game so I learned a lot from that too.

The closest I'd come to winning before my first win was taking three capitals playing as Poland. I was far too slow in that game though and my artillery were getting GWBered. All other attempts would end up me rage quitting after taking one or two capitals or rerolling the map after getting units killed stupidly. I wouldn't be surprised if it has taken me over 100 rerolls to finally find a map I could win. I have had a Deity victory though. After my domination failures I wanted to give a culture victory a try. I had watched Acken's Brazil game and was blown away by how good he was. I wanted to try an autocratic culture victory with Poland. This attempt turned into a turn 292 diplomatic victory. I was influential over the remaining Civ 9 turns later. If I had gone freedom the win would have been much faster. It is very coincidental that my only Deity wins were both on turn 292.

The game I want criticised is a Spain game on Pangea. Standard speed and standard size. This map got the most out of Spain's unique ability, 1500 free gold before turn 30 which I spent on workers, archers and a monument in my first expo. This fast start meant I took my first capital on turn 79 IIRC. My next capital was taken between 110-120, so too slow I guess. On route to the third capital is when I was considering quitting. The terrain was very difficult and I lost about 8 units from silly mistakes. I was completely bogged down and didn't take the third capital until after 170. Whoever loads the save can view the map and watch my empire expand, you can see for yourself the turn in which I took cities and the route in which I took them.

A good warmonger can easily win this map before turn 200, the route I took probably wasn't optimal. That and the fact I'm still very bad at maneuvering units. I lost 1 Spearman and 1 CB when taking my first capital. I lost several Pikemen, Horsemen, Forest Elephants, XB and a Swordsman on route to my 3rd capital. Maybe a few cannons as well. The Elephants were gifts from a CS ally so they were expendable, my other units I shouldn't have let die. I didn't lose a single unit when taking my 4th, 5th and 6th capital. Artillery is superb, combine it with war roads and Cavalry and it is difficult for a unit to be killed. My final capital takeover resulted in the death of 1 Landship and 1 highly promoted Artillery. My Anti-Aircraft Guns and Triplanes/Fighters did a good job of keeping the skies clear of GWBs.

If anyone wants to give my save a look over and give feedback that would be great. Also play the game yourself from the turn 0 initial save and see how quickly you can win.

 

[zxcvbob]

I chose this map because it should work equally well for Honor, Liberty or Tradition, is quite good without being OP, and has possibility for religion (for those players who disagree with me that it's largely pointless).

I am making an LP series and the first part is available here.

For now, here is the opening screenshot, and T0 and T105 saves.

I look forward to playing along with you

Map is:

Spoiler :

Alex, Pangaea, Standard/Standard

I found this post while cleaning out my bookmarks. Haven't looked at the T105 save yet, and I can't find the let's play videos. I'm a decent emperor-level player, but really struggle above that. So I started the game last night, going full Honor instead of my usual Tradition. Stole a worker from Boudicca, stayed at war with her for a while without any fighting except taking potshots at her scout, then peaced-out. A little while later, Spain asked me to join her in fighting the Celts and I said "10 turns to prepare". Denmark too. That was right about when I was ready to start my warpath anyway.

I settled in place and researched Pottery first, then Mining and Archery. Started with a scout then a monument. I wasted production on a shrine when I should have been building a granary because I thought this was immortal, not deity. Built archers until I could build hoplites, then built a couple of those and upgraded the archers to composite bows. Built a settler when I got to pop5 and settled just to the east. Other than the one shrine, I've only built libraries, monuments, granaries, a circus, and one barracks -- and military units. I still need markets and a national college. I'm way behind in science, of course, catching up slowly. I will annex Edinburgh after I finish the national college.

It's about turn 100 and I've taken Edinburgh, and I have declarations of friendship with most of the AI's; I don't think I'm friends with Morocco or England so will go for them next. (The DoF's are nice because I can sell luxes for cash instead of GPT) Then someone will backstab me, and I'll take it from there. The battle of Edinburgh was more costly than I expected. I went in with 4 composite bows, 2 hoplites, and a chariot archer. A great general got there a little late, then another composite bow and a horseman for reinforcements. I think I lost 2 bows and a hoplite.

OTOH I might start over and see if I can do better; skip the shrine, and try to get my settler out a little quicker. I also need to take a look at King V's game...

 

[aafritz17]

One last thing. I've heard many players complain about the AI unit spam. Phrases like "carpets of doom". The basic rule here is that YOU want to be the carpet. If you have an army of 10 units and you are moaning about how long it's taking bogged down in a war with Shaka, then you have only yourself to blame. Build an army of 100 and then see how he likes it.

(Bold mine)

Read this a couple of years ago, remember it every time I play domination. Just came across it again, figured it's worth another quote.

 

[zxcvbob]

(Bold mine)

Read this a couple of years ago, remember it every time I play domination. Just came across it again, figured it's worth another quote.

I'm just not sure how you do that at deity-level. I know; don't build wonders and useless buildings, but you still need *some* buildings, settlers, and perhaps workers if you can't steal any. Maybe I'm not switching my citizens from food tiles to hammer tiles soon enough.

 

[aafritz17]

I'm just not sure how you do that at deity-level. I know; don't build wonders and useless buildings, but you still need *some* buildings, settlers, and perhaps workers if you can't steal any. Maybe I'm not switching my citizens from food tiles to hammer tiles soon enough.

@zxcvbob, I ain't that good yet either. That's why I was re-reading some of this thread.

 

[mbbcam]

I chop everything in the early game. I go after Forests even before Lux. I don't care about early unhappiness while I link up my lux, it's only ever for a turn or two or three. Production is king in the early game, economy in the midgame and science and culture in the lategame.

Beest, you should make sure you have most of the world scouted by the time you start your wars. And yes, Fractal is more difficult for rushes. Start with NQ Pangaea and practise on there until you've perfected it. Then try some other map types.

Perhaps worth also re-reading these observations from the master a few posts earlier.