Exodus(Arab-Israeli War)

[Ajidica]

That would be hard because civ can't represent refugees, world politics, and forign influence very well on a small map. Besides, with the exception of the Yom Kippur war and the war of independance, Israel has never been seriously in danger of destruction. I havent set any end date though.

 

[Koba the Dread]

This scenario is pretty cool. If you added Dale's Bombardment Mod, a few UU, and maybe tweaked the Tech'ing this would be an awesome Mod (in my humble opinion). As it is, the game is tough, but winnable (as the Israelis).

 

[Agent327]

That would be hard because civ can't represent refugees, world politics, and forign influence very well on a small map. Besides, with the exception of the Yom Kippur war and the war of independance, Israel has never been seriously in danger of destruction. I havent set any end date though.

Refugees could be barbarians (as no one wants them inside their borders), there's the UN (which may need some editing)... An end date might help as well. And you could add Washington and Moscow in the corners for further external influence (generating donations, financial and military aid).

This scenario is pretty cool. If you added
Dale's Bombardment Mod, a few UU, and maybe tweaked the Tech'ing this would be an awesome Mod (in my humble opinion).

And this might be a good one too.

 

[Ajidica]

I want to try and keep this scenario fairly simple. I am not a fan of scenarios that have 80 new units and huge amounts of new stuff. I am working on it on and off. I am trying to get my Byzantium scenario working. I will try and get a new verison soon.

 

[Agent327]

No one is asking for 80 new units, we're just making suggestions - and I hope you get your Byzantium scenario working.

 

[Ajidica]

I know, I was exagerating. Do you have any skill at XML? It is formationinfos that isn't working for me. Since it fails to load, I know that I missed a < or /> somewhere. If you have any spare time, would you mind downloading it and looking it over?

 

[Agent327]

I guess you're talking about the Byzantium one? Have you tried XML Marker? (It alerts you when you're doing something wrong.)

 

[Ajidica]

Yeah, my Byzantium one. Where can I get XML Marker? Since most of my errors are generally forgetting brackets, this will be haepful. Does it work on XP?

 

[Agent327]

You can get it here:

http://www.download.com/XML-Marker/3000-7241_4-10202365.html

and it works on Windows XP.

 

[Ajidica]

Thanks, I'll check it out later.

EDIT: Thanks!. I just looked at it but right off the bat it told me what my errors are and where they are. Thanks!

 

[Agent327]

If only I'd known earlier... Anyway, you're most welcome!

 

[Ajidica]

WOOT!!!!! The map is finaly working. Now begins the long slow task of changing city names, adding resources, and units. Jeelen, do you know of any maps of the world that show resource denisties? I know there in grain in Anatolia, silver mines near Trebizond, and silk produciton near thessalonika, but beyond that I don't know.

 

[Ajidica]

Jeelen, in a scenario, what is happening when every empire has 10,000 points? Even little one have that along with large empires. I think is has to do with missing victory condidions, but do you know how to fix it?

 

[Agent327]

10,000?! When you start up the scenario? My guess is your double screwed: when I have that (I usually get 5,000), all I think is: .... - gotta start over again... Sorry, man, can't help you there... (I usually get that trying a map I don't know, and seems to work - until I actually try and edit it...)

 

[Ajidica]

I don't know what I did, but it fixed itself. I justed did some map work then saved it. When I loaded it agian, there was nothing wrong.

 

[Agent327]

You lucky devil! (That has never happened to me...)

 

[Ajidica]

Considering the amount of work I have put into it and how much anti-luck I have had with it, I think I deserve to have luck once in a while.

 

[CrazyOkie]

I downloaded this over the weekend and played it on Noble. My first impressions are that it appears to be unbalanced in favor of the Arab countries. I'm certainly not the greatest Civ player out there but it just seems at Noble level there ought to be some hope the Israelis can survive. I looked up the Arab-Israeli war of '48 on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War . It's pretty clear that the Israeli's had more equipment than is provided in the scenario - in particular aircraft which seems to be missing (at least as far as I've played). That creates a huge advantage to the Arabs who do have aircraft. I looked in the WBS file, I noted that all the civilizations are set to the initial civics settings, conferring no advantages to the Israelis - and it should be noted that they had (and have) huge advantages.

If you don't object, I'd like to play around with this and see what I can make of it. If I can find a order of battle that better details what units each side had that would help.

 

[Ajidica]

Thanks for the reply.
First off, it is survivable as Israel, but just very hard. I didn't include many aircraft as initialy there wasn't very many aircraft except in the Arabs armies. When I released it I was planning on including the Broken Star unit buying system, but never did it.

As for equipment, I wouldn't exactly trust wikipedia. I basicly used only one source, the book Exodus (historical fiction with a strong leaning to history during the Independance War part), which made it clear Israel had huge difficulties with gaining equipment because when they were part of Palestine Britian made it hard for them to own weapons and afterwards Britain was still resisting in letting Israeli supply ships in.

As for Israeli advantages, the only advantages they had were tenacity, bravery, and sheer luck. They didn't have that great of a defensove position as the state they revieved was basicly the area from Jerusalem, up past Haifa and not very wide either (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have a map with me right now), and large parts of it had Arab brigands and it was simply not very defensible. THe fact that the Israelis managed to stand up to, not even drive back the ARabs, was an amazement to the world, and really embaressed the Arab world, driving many of them deeper into fundamentalism and extremism.

If you want to work on the scenario further, by all means do so. I had just created it as a novelty thing. It went together in about 2 nights. If you work on it then re-release it, just credit the original as mine.

 

[CrazyOkie]

Thanks for the reply.
First off, it is survivable as Israel, but just very hard. I didn't include many aircraft as initialy there wasn't very many aircraft except in the Arabs armies. When I released it I was planning on including the Broken Star unit buying system, but never did it.

As for equipment, I wouldn't exactly trust wikipedia. I basicly used only one source, the book Exodus (historical fiction with a strong leaning to history during the Independance War part), which made it clear Israel had huge difficulties with gaining equipment because when they were part of Palestine Britian made it hard for them to own weapons and afterwards Britain was still resisting in letting Israeli supply ships in.

As for Israeli advantages, the only advantages they had were tenacity, bravery, and sheer luck. They didn't have that great of a defensove position as the state they revieved was basicly the area from Jerusalem, up past Haifa and not very wide either (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have a map with me right now), and large parts of it had Arab brigands and it was simply not very defensible. THe fact that the Israelis managed to stand up to, not even drive back the ARabs, was an amazement to the world, and really embaressed the Arab world, driving many of them deeper into fundamentalism and extremism.

If you want to work on the scenario further, by all means do so. I had just created it as a novelty thing. It went together in about 2 nights. If you work on it then re-release it, just credit the original as mine.

Good point on wikipedia - a good first source of information but never trust a single source of information. I certainly wouldn't trust their troop numbers; seems hard to believe that the Israelis outnumbered the Arabs (possible, but just seems unlikely). But they do mention the aircraft - the converted Messershmitts - which is interesting and seems unlikely to have been fabricated. They also mention specific tanks. Years ago there was an old Norm Kroger game based on the Arab-Israeli conflicts and they which wasere quite good. I do plan to look up some books at the library on the subject.

By advantages I meant in their civics - a democracy with a free market, as opposed to the dictators that they fought against. Those translate in the game (as in real life) into production and happiness advantages.

I'll do a little reading - as well as look at including some of the bombardment/combat mods. And certainly, anything I do I'll be sure to credit you as the original source of the scenario. Thanks!