That reminds me: I have been meaning to run something by you, Xyth.
While I prefer to retain proper nouns - both names (Karolus vs. Charles) and places (Varanasi vs. Benares) - wherever possible, I feel generic nouns should be translated into English. I realize this is a personal aesthetic preference; but I am convinced that the Aztec Sacrificial Altar, the Spanish Citadel, and the Chinese Pavilion are preferable to the Aztec Tzacualli, the Spanish Castillo, and the Chinese Tingzi. What you lose in flavour, you gain tenfold in immersion and clarity. For example, the Thai Ho Trai means very little to most people; it's just another unique building with a minor research bonus. Call it the Thai Archives and you give players a much better mental picture. If you agree, we can rename some of the UBs in 0.9.5: the Turkish Hammam and the Persian Ab Anbar can be recast as the Turkish Sauna and the Persian Cistern. If not, we can leave them be.
You're writing a game mod for English-speakers, or you'd be calling "horseman" "caballero" units and so on, and it would get ridiculous. Unique Wonders are so strongly tied to a sense of time and place that you can make a good case for using the native language, but unique buildings not so much. If I want to know what something is without having to look it up all over again, and without having to memorize what fifty civilizations' unique buildings do, it makes a lot more sense to use English words for the generic nouns.
When the Spanish Empire builds a workshop, it's a "workshop" and not a "trabajeria" or some such. When they build a castle, it should similarly be something in English, if there is an English word for the concept. "Citadel" works fine, for instance.
I don't know; I really think they're on to something about this.
On the subject of reassigning leader traits, I suggest you take another look at Nasser (Humane/Progressive). I think leaders should be judged by their times, and by the standards of the twentieth century, Nassar was a dictator who led a repressive government that imprisoned thousands of Egyptians, committed numerous human rights violations, and undermined democratic institutions. I would not describe him as Humane.
You're writing a game mod for English-speakers, or you'd be calling "horseman" "caballero" units and so on, and it would get ridiculous. Unique Wonders are so strongly tied to a sense of time and place that you can make a good case for using the native language, but unique buildings not so much. If I want to know what something is without having to look it up all over again, and without having to memorize what fifty civilizations' unique buildings do, it makes a lot more sense to use English words for the generic nouns.
I think we should be consistent across all civilizations.
When we review the UBs in 0.9.5, I think I will include an English language translation for each name. You can make your final decision then.
Since you're counting on the players to write the civilopedia for you in the first place... I think maybe you should consider going with the advice.
I'm glad someone agrees with me.
I do not want to press this point too far: it's rather minor on the scale of things. But I do think it has potential.
To elaborate: I would continue to mention the traditional name for a building (Hammam, Ab Anbar) in its Civilopedia entry. I would also retain foreign words that have passed into the English language (Forum, Bazaar). And I do not suggest you add an adjective to the building name (Turkish Sauna, Persian Cistern); I simply included them in my post for readers who might not remember the names of every UB. My argument remains the same: there is a reason we prefer Sacrificial Altar and Pavilion to Tzacualli and Tingzi, and I think we should be consistent across all civilizations.
When we review the UBs in 0.9.5, I think I will include an English language translation for each name. You can make your final decision then.
Xyth said:I would prefer to evaluate each on its own merit. Bear in mind that we all have different biases. For example, while English is my native language, I live in New Zealand. I'm very familiar with what a Marae is whilst I imagine that most North Americans or Europeans are not. We are near Southeast Asia so some of us know what a Candi or Ho Trai is. I'd never heard of a Rathaus or a Levee before I started playing civ and to us a Salon is a hairdresser's shop. Yet I imagine many Europeans are familiar with these.
I vastly prefer 'hammam' over 'sauna'. 'Sauna' is a Finnish word and concept and while we have borrowed the word in English its horribly disingenuous to apply it to the hammam (which incidentally was also borrowed into English - it's in the OED - it's just not in common use these days). It's the equivalent of calling a Yurt a Wigwam or vice-versa just because they have a similar function. We could call them both tents but then definition is lost.
Yeah it was a tricky assignment. On one hand he was responsible for a lot of infrastructure and welfare schemes that massively improved the lives of his people. On the other he was pretty much a dictator who imprisoned a lot of people and such.
Progressive works well, Humane is controversial. Let me know your suggestions for a replacement trait.
What about Progressive/Protective? (It's available now that Gilgamesh is Traditional.) Nassar defied Britain and France (Egypt's former imperial masters) by nationalizing the Suez Canal and cutting deals with the Soviet Bloc. He also promoted Arab unity and personally survived an assassination attempt. Protective seems a good fit.
Small bug to report with the Portuguese, I can't build a Carrack! It doesn't become available until Charter instead of Compass as described. Any ideas? Thanks for an awesome MOD!
That works, done.What about Progressive/Protective? (It's available now that Gilgamesh is Traditional.) Nassar defied Britain and France (Egypt's former imperial masters) by nationalizing the Suez Canal and cutting deals with the Soviet Bloc. He also promoted Arab unity and personally survived an assassination attempt. Protective seems a good fit.
Hmm. It appears Sejong is also Progressive/Protective.
(Did both Sejong and Gilgamesh have that trait combination in 0.9.3?)
In any case, Sejong is a good candidate for Progressive/Humane.
To quote his Civilopedia entry:
"Following the principles of Neo-Confucianism, Sejong was also a humanitarian who proclaimed that there must be three trails before a judgment is reached; and he prohibited brutality in the punishment of criminals, such as flogging."
On the "about" sticky, Karolus is still named Charlemagne under Germany's listed leaders.
I'd like to see the leaders from the varietas delectat pack (Hitler, Mobutu, etc) added in.
Instead, in BtS, Great People names are chosen randomly.
It's simply bizarre to see Ernest Hemingway, Ramakrishna, and General Patton born in the Ancient Era.
I suggest we move back to the original system.
At the same time, we can also correct a few errors in the list of Great People.
I preferred the old way too but as far as I can tell there is no way to reverse it.
I'm not sure what I want to do in terms of Great People naming, there's so many things that bug me about them. Sometimes I'm tempted to remove unique names for them altogether. I'd prefer to leave any changes in this area until a later version though.
Really? There's no way to rewrite the function so that it picks the first name in the list and proceeds to the next, instead of picking names randomly? That's too bad.
I think you should try to add some new world civs like Canada and Brazil that would help scenarios.