First Liberty game...annex? max city pop?

[ndhl83]

As title says, just looking for insight on liberty games. I usually open with tradition and run a small and tall empire focusing on Spaceship or Culture.

I recently switched from Prince to Emperor (King felt too much like Prince) and I decided to try and play a wide empire who becomes a warmonger once I get at tech edge over my closest neighbours. I always go random Civ and got Russia this round. So far I have 6 cities, one of which I gained from peace terms. It is currently a puppet. I am running about 15 happiness with 3 Mercantile CS allies and all my lux resources.

Questions:

1) When do you annex a city versus leaving it as a puppet? Is it best to leave any city that isn't mission critical (port, science centre, production centre) as a puppet and just keeping an eye on their pop?

2) And, on that note, what pop do you limit small cities to? I have one science city and one production city thus far, and all others I have left hovering around 8 pop. I usually build shrine/temple/science buildings and happiness buildings in the small cities, and perhaps a special improvement (mint, stone works) when availble if the cost/benefit is good.

 

[digrosz]

1) In general, I only annex cities that were previously capitals, as they often are the best cities in an empire. Occasionally I come across cities that benefit me that much that they overcome the unhappiness of annexing. E.g. high science (puppets have a 25% penalty on science output), production (for military, something you can't produce in puppets) or when I need to buy specific units/buildings in a captured city. Puppets are excellent gold farms, by the way, as they always focus on Gold. Just replace all the farms around a puppet with Trading Posts and you're set.

2) When going liberty, thus expanding a lot, I like to keep my cities limited in the early game. Say a maximum of 8 pop each. Later in the game, when my happiness and economy look solid (usually around late medieval) due to religion/abundance of luxuries (you will have a lot of luxuries when going wide), I let them grow.

 

[slowcar]

annexing does not hit happiness, assuming a court house is built. it heightens your social policy costs and adds +5% cost to science.

i annex cities that are big and have high production if they can out-tech the penalty, which is usually pretty easy with an university+2 specialists.
puppets don't run science specialists and have a penalty, so the difference can be quite big.

you need to have the gold to rush a court house handy, or the happiness buffer to hardbuild it.

i also sometimes annex a frontline city to buy units if it is far from the main land.

always wait with annexing until the rebellion is put down, otherwise you get more unhappiness for no return, so puppet first.


regarding pop: you don't have the 1/2 unhappiness in the capital, so there is no reason to grow it much more than the others. as pop = science i try not to limit my core city growth. keeping a city small questions the reason for founding it at the first place.

 

[joshua43214]

The size of your expos depends on a few factors, they can be anywhere from 1-2 pop fillers to large cities depending on the map.

Do grow your capitol.

Generally you grow the expos in stages, first getting up to 5 pop, then 8 pop, then ~12 pop as happiness comes online.

I rarely annex cities. I only do it later in the game when I need a front line city I can get units from, or if I am having happiness issues. Just let them be gold farms and you will be fine.

Also, all cities are science cities. get the pop up and run the specialists in all of them. A domination victory is a science victory.

 

[kamikazees]

I annex cities if I want to control what is being produced (ie I don't want it to spam walls, banks, colosseums, etc.), or if it gives a strategic advantage. Examples might be if it is on the front line and I need units. Another example might be if I can specialize the city (if it is on a river with lots of and a mountain, I will want science buildings there. Finally, maybe I can annex and buy some tiles that will let me drop a great general on a key place.

 

[manu-fan]

I tend to only Annex capitals, because those are the best cities.

For others, I just leave them as puppets and do Trading Post spam around them.

Cheers.

 

[LiamNosliw]

I annex capitals and if it has a high pop otherwise I puppet them

 

[ndhl83]

Cool. Thanks all for the sound reasoning and food for thought.

I will make good use of the tip to turn puppets into gold farms!

Just to clarify: I understand that my total science score comes from all of my pop, and therefore small cities should still be grown, but when I say "science city" I mean one with 3x academies, all the sci building, national college, etc. The main science city, as it were. High pop, low-mid production (if hard building req'd) and a few tiles well suited to hold an academy or three.

 

[joshua43214]

Just to clarify: I understand that my total science score comes from all of my pop, and therefore small cities should still be grown, but when I say "science city" I mean one with 3x academies, all the sci building, national college, etc. The main science city, as it were. High pop, low-mid production (if hard building req'd) and a few tiles well suited to hold an academy or three.

Unless there is some extreme reason, this should always be your capitol

 

[slowcar]

Unless there is some extreme reason, this should always be your capitol

with tradition, yes. with liberty not as much. and if a good expansion sits near a mountain and the capital does not this alone should be enough to switch.

 

[ndhl83]

with tradition, yes. with liberty not as much. and if a good expansion sits near a mountain and the capital does not this alone should be enough to switch.

That is exactly what happened: The production in the cap is the best of all my cities and areas I could settle early, so it is now my 'factory'. I was able to found a science city on a river, next to a mountain, with nothing but plains and flood plains all around. It was the fourth city I founded and the pop is already 2 above my cap. I am also growing capital though to make sure I can work all production/gold tiles available, and the science boost doesn't hurt either.