First time ever.... defensive pact

[Sherlock]

Japan has been at war with the Dutch forever and I've been shielding their cities with m y units, gifting units, etc, etc.

I FINALLY got the Dutch to agree to a defensive pact which gave me license to DOW Japan.

Why is this so rare? When you're big and the other guy is small you'd think they'd agree to a DOW in a New York Minute, but no.

 

[Paszczak]

Yeah well Defensive Pacts are implemented quite poorly. It's best to just avoid them lest you be stuck in unwated war for ages. Oh and don't expect another civ to come to your aid. They'll happily sit on their buttocks and make peace after 10 turns while your lands burn 3 hexes away.

That is, if you even manage to sign the damn pact. Hard to do if you're not #1 military. And if you are, do you even need it?

 

[reddishrecue]

Defensive pacts come in the later eras so maybe that's why it felt so rare for yourself since it is more likely that you play the earlier eras more often than the later eras..

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

DOes having a Defensive Pact give a diplomatic bonus? I guess it could be nice to cement friendships even more.

 

[peterw1987]

I dont think defensive pact has any effect on relationship.

 

[reddishrecue]

Defensive pacts can make the civilization you make a pact with more pleased with you by a point or two.

 

[Aristos]

I FINALLY got the Dutch to agree to a defensive pact which gave me license to DOW Japan.

And there you erased your own DP...

 

[Ryika]

I FINALLY got the Dutch to agree to a defensive pact which gave me license to DOW Japan.

Uhm... defensive pacts are canceled if a Civ declares war while the pact is active, so that pact basically didn't do anything for you. You also get a warmonger penalty for reactively declaring war as part of the defensive pact - and the warmonger penalty even counts for the Civ that you have the pact with... so there is basically only one useful situation for those pacts: If another Civ is about to declare war on you and you want to drag one of your friends into the conflict without having to pay him. So if you see Shaka is massing an army at your borders... then THAT'S the time to make as many defensive pacts as possible. Other than that, they're pretty useless.

 

[NKVD]

If you are not #1 military. Lets say you sign a defensive pact with dutch does a third civ wanting to declare war to you will see the combined power of 2 civ or not when judging to go or not?

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[Aristos]

If you are not #1 military. Lets say you sign a defensive pact with dutch does a third civ wanting to declare war to you will see the combined power of 2 civ or not when judging to go or not?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I remember seeing the code somewhere in the DLL pack that shows that the AI takes into account close relations when judging military power ratios in order to decide an attack, but I don' recall being it specifically tied to DPs.

Which on second thought makes sense, as the obvious precondition to a DP is a very good stance with the AI (Friendship+); thus, the DP is basically an automatic way to achieve what you would achieve by asking the same close friend to join your war after the AI declares. The AI checks for those close relations to estimate combined mil power, thus checking for DPs is basically redundant.

DPs are not useless. Say you count on the help of some very good friend AI for a war that you see coming; if you check relations between the potential aggressor and your close friend, and for some reason they are also close, you may not be guaranteed that your close friend will join the war. Thus, the DP ensures that this happens even if the other two AIs are also close friends.

 

[Zaimejs]

Awesome. Now I have a new goal in the game!!!

 

[Lanijon]

Actually the AI does take defensive pacts into account, not just your relationships. A few games ago I had the Ottomans spamming war on me, but after signing a few defensive pacts they immediately stopped. Then after several turns go by, Germany declares thus expending all the DPs, and guess what? The Ottomans are right back at it on literally the same turn (that actually happened twice that game). I highly doubt it was just a coincidence; Suleiman was clearly lying in wait.

Also, I don't know what game everyone else is playing, but DPs are usually incredibly easy for me to get from any friendly or "neutral+" AI. I don't think I've ever been rejected, even when my army is laughably pathetic.