2metraninja: how you think Apolyton will help us?
2metraninja: with army, money? keeping RB under embargo?
Ot4e: you asking?
Ot4e: with all of this
Ot4e: and something more
Ot4e: they can just sit behind our backs
2metraninja: we might have problem with that
Ot4e: and hope that RB consider them fat enough to attack directly
2metraninja: the general sentiment in our team is that us - CFC and CP will have to do the heavylifting
2metraninja: well, if RB attacks them, then this is different
Ot4e: it never happens
Ot4e: forget it
Ot4e: but there is an opportunity I see clearly
Ot4e: if Apolyton strikes Inca soon
2metraninja: I doubt that
2metraninja: Apolyton to attack Inca?
Ot4e: why not?
Ot4e: they want expansion
Ot4e: ?
2metraninja: I just doubt it
Ot4e: they want spot to prepare assault?
Ot4e: what's better?
2metraninja: Inca have army number 2 in the world and Apolyton what? number 7? 8?
2metraninja: it will require sacrifices for Poly to get a chance
Ot4e: that's why i started about dreamers
2metraninja: now, thinking of that, we might set it up
2metraninja: to tell Poly RB are preparing to attack Inca
2metraninja: and they can bite fat piece
2metraninja: but then, RB will not be happy about this
2metraninja: and they will have common border
Ot4e: they just need to steal 1 city for the beginning, it is not simple
Ot4e: but ottomans have good UU, and I beleive they can prepare nice attack in 20-25 turns
Ot4e: may be it is allready late
Ot4e: but it is better to try
Ot4e: if Apolyton get control under that area I beleive RB will be confused
2metraninja: we might have some luck with landgrabbing from Apolyton
2metraninja: I know MZ have some internal riots
2metraninja: and soon there may be another ruler to Apolyton
2metraninja: I know the other guy too
2metraninja: and he is one of the greediest bastards I had ever seen
Ot4e: even more greedy than MZ? oh, god
2metraninja: hahah
2metraninja: MZ is "flower to be sniffed" compared to the other guy
Ot4e: a flower? he is ready to argue about each desert tile he loses
Ot4e: well, we need to pull him on the constructive position
Ot4e: I think attacking inca is nice scenario
2metraninja: but on the other hand, wont this be making easy for RB to conquer Inca?
2metraninja: if Inca have like 30 catapults when the attack comes, RB will lose nice army in the initial attack
2metraninja: some 30-40 units less for RB
Ot4e: we need to define on which side inca is
2metraninja: I look at this like this: the enemy of my enemy is my friend
Ot4e: if you have stable relations
Ot4e: this is important. Are they ready to aim their catapults on RB?
2metraninja: I dont, but I think this will happen
2metraninja: if RB attacks them - of course
2metraninja: from what I have talked with them, they fear RB will atack them, but they think they can repel anyone up until rifles
[ | Edited 11:35:36] 2metraninja: "peace in our time" they said they have
2metraninja: which means they expect to be attacked at any time
2metraninja: another thing is if we can use MZ's hate for Frenchies
Ot4e: how?
2metraninja: are you willing to promise help them against Frenchies if later when french are no more Apolyton side with us?
2metraninja: this will be perfect
Ot4e: up to this moment I was going to promise them both to help with each other
2metraninja: using the NAPs with RB to get more land and us 3 being bigger and stronger and united when time comes to deal with RB
2metraninja: you were going to promise them both at the same time?
Ot4e: as the way to keep them in peace?
2metraninja: I see
2metraninja: I just though that hate is way beter driving force than fear
2metraninja: fear from hypothetic RB world dominance vs hate for neighbor?
Ot4e: do you think so?
Ot4e: I wasnt going to promise anything special
Ot4e: just a small trick to remain abstain
Ot4e: and stop unnecessary conflict
2metraninja: I am just discussing possibilities
2metraninja: yes, I tried so hard about stopping the conflict
2metraninja: but
2metraninja: since you speak only about Poly as possible ally and you mentioned you would be happy to see french dead, I calculated 2+2 and 4 came as possible answer to me
Ot4e: war with French is the most stupied thing we can do now, both CP and Poly
Ot4e: forget about my personal negative impressions from frenchie
2metraninja: not that stupid if you have NAP with RB to t175 and if French fall apart in say 10 turns after being attacked
Ot4e: it is not that simple
2metraninja: I am not asking you to do it alone, we will bloody our hands too
Ot4e: after you finish zulu?
2metraninja: why not
2metraninja: we will have standing army
2metraninja: why to pay them wages to just lay around and get fat. and outdated?
Ot4e: i think we need frenchie in conflict with RB, but I may be wrong
2metraninja: Frenchies are so reserved, we cant get even OB with them
2metraninja: if you think you can get them to participate actively, then great
Ot4e: they are busy trading with Poly
2metraninja: or at least to promise they wont attack any of us while we are fighting RB, then great. otherwise... do you want to have world power number 2 just sitting in your back and waiting to see where the wind is blowing?
2metraninja: when we wrote to them they were not busy with anyone
Ot4e: of course we bring them on our side
Ot4e: or destroy
Ot4e: )
2metraninja: this is what I mean
2metraninja: if we can trust them, then great.
2metraninja: if we cant... we take measure so they dont betray us
Ot4e: I know some of them, we play often with Frenchie, but dont know those who rule there
2metraninja: well, maybe we just wait and see what they do
2metraninja: if they show friendly, we befriend them
Ot4e: at least I hope I get a reply
2metraninja: so far they are reserved to cold
Ot4e: i send them like 5 mails
2metraninja: dont be too open with them
2metraninja: information flies around in unexpected ways
Ot4e: I have allready purposed them longer NAP
Ot4e: of course I am like fish
Ot4e: but we need to be not toasted between RB and CIVfr first of all
Ot4e: i dont beleive Apolyton is ready for a wide war, we are not either, this all untill 175
Ot4e: i proposed small blitz
Ot4e: to take the height
Ot4e: if Rb eats 2 small neighbours and we just divide 1, it wont be equal
Ot4e: they will of course fight untill the last unit
[ | Edited 12:08:11] Ot4e: if Poly gets their piece they will be even less eager to do anything imho
Ot4e: i mean if Poly gets
2metraninja: for one thing I think we agree on 100% - we cant allow ourselves to be uder crossfire from Frenchies and RB. They are with us or against us.
Ot4e: from my side it is the primary goal
Ot4e: i said I am not good in those diplomatical issues
Ot4e: and being not toasted by frenchies and rb is satisfying result
2metraninja: also, we cant allow French to have NAp with you, but not with us
2metraninja: you said you know some of the Frenchies
2metraninja: this was one major consideration for us actually
Ot4e: I am still not sure who is stackholder there
2metraninja: can I rely on you that you wont let your connections with them be obstacle for you to act 100% in interest of our alliance?
Ot4e: frenchie has decent online community
2metraninja: and hurt Frenchies if this is necessary?
Ot4e: we kick each other asses regularly, it is just a game
2metraninja: same here
2metraninja: I have RL friends which I kill mercilessly in Civ
Ot4e: now we have fully formal relations
Ot4e: i dont know how deep those who i know take part
2metraninja: I am 100% sure they know you and want to win the game too
Ot4e: they mailed me very early when we only were establishing our contact
Ot4e: this is what I allways try to make clear
Ot4e: if we have same goals we go together
Ot4e: if we have arrangements we do them all
Ot4e: but the time when you say " there is no rose garden over here" will come for sure, or we say
Ot4e: i dont want to keep illusions in anybody
2metraninja: good, my type of guy
2metraninja: I want to know that we act with with passion and goodwill efforts for our current tasks
2metraninja: and plans
2metraninja:
Ot4e: How I see the situation? We need to stop RBs race. They are still dependant from us. If we stop OB, NAPs they will get troubles. If you keep 10 units in front of them, they will also need to keep some in back. If you get 30, the will have to keep more.
The same thing from each side. Even if they have rifles and you only have knights. They wont have much free military to conquer the world. They will get maintance and can get ensnared in someone's land.
From this point we will come to the next step and get the same military level as they have.
Ot4e: But we need to involve in this complex blockade as much parties as we can
Ot4e: I've notice that you have researched Alphabet recently
Ot4e: why? now you cant conceal knowledge of nationalism
Ot4e: or that's the part of heavy overflow?
2metraninja: we cant bulb Philo without Alpha
2metraninja: and we have no time to tech it
Ot4e: ah its for GS?
Ot4e: got it
2metraninja: as for your plan about keeping hostile borders for RB, I know how it works
2metraninja: I already told the team about that
2metraninja: some are over-enthusisasitc about attacking and killing and what not, but they have no the experience to know that war is risky endeavor and dirty business
2metraninja:
I gave them example of USA vs Russia in cold war
Ot4e: oh lol
2metraninja: at the end, USSR collapsed
2metraninja: because had to keep in speed with USA arming
Ot4e: that's arguable
Ot4e: but for this case
Ot4e: good example
Ot4e: but as I said we need pressure from the other side
Ot4e: Poly, u-civ mainly
2metraninja: Uciv is another big question
Ot4e: same as civfr?
2metraninja: at least we have NAP with them and you dont have border with the,
2metraninja: them
2metraninja: Uciv are way less dangerous
2metraninja: we just dont know what to expect from Frenchies
2metraninja: AND! they have (or at least will have) common border with BOTH of us
2metraninja: we believe it is Moineau that is in charge in CivFR and we consider him highly opportunistic player
2metraninja: so we cant leave this matter to chance
2metraninja: we BOTH have to have NAP and cooperation against RB from CivFR, or they must go out first
Ot4e: i'll think about it
Ot4e: the next few turns will show
2metraninja: how will show?
Ot4e: up to this time the expressed interest in defeating RB, if this never goes into something more than words, we may return to this plan
2metraninja: I see
2metraninja: makes sense
2metraninja: just remember we must BOTH have NAP with them
2metraninja: just one is not an option
2metraninja: leaves one of us vulnerable and ties the other one hands to help
Ot4e: i will do what i can
Ot4e: i understand that you want to consume zulu and dont want to any competers there
2metraninja: competition in form of who?
Ot4e: with frenchies ofc
Ot4e: is there a civ that not having territorial problems with them?
Ot4e: how much time do you need to remove spainards?
2metraninja:
considering we got the blunt of the zulu attack and in that same time Frenchies built half the zulu land bordering them without competition, we can even say we are already gave Frenchies bonus
2metraninja: plus, we cant even get OB with Frenchies, what about to trust them in war?
Ot4e: well that's old kind frenchie
Ot4e: when we were establishing trade routes
Ot4e: i had to put road on their land
2metraninja: hahah
2metraninja: you to do the job?
2metraninja: and they to benefit from it?
Ot4e: yes, that's why we see their city
2metraninja: well
Ot4e: they are just too lazy
Ot4e: i dont think you have to fear them
2metraninja: lazy or greedy?
Ot4e: they are teching civil service
Ot4e: 5 turns
[ | Edited 13:51:03] Ot4e: to go
2metraninja: they have land
2metraninja: they will become very strong
2metraninja: and their apetitus will come with it
Ot4e: heh, this is not like we need to stop them with knights against tanks
2metraninja: I just try to figure out how to make it that we dont reveal we have alliance with you, but still to make that we both get NAP with frenchies
2metraninja: well, if we are busy dancing with RB at other side of our empire, even knights can do a lot of damage
Ot4e: sure
Ot4e: but about what you said
Ot4e: i will try to bring them on our side
Ot4e: entirely
Ot4e: but
2metraninja: better they see the wisdom of this
Ot4e: but i still have proposed them to extend nap until 175
2metraninja: t 175 is OK
2metraninja: we have NAP with RB till then, so no 2 front war
Ot4e: i dont like long NAPs, you know
Ot4e: may be i will regret it
2metraninja: we try to avoid having many NAPs expiring in one date
2metraninja: when you proposed them the NAP?
2metraninja: now thinking about it, it may become problematic
2metraninja: what if they refuse NAP with us?
2metraninja: we wont have time to deal with them before our NAP with RB expire
2metraninja: and you cant help us with this either
2metraninja: before t175
Ot4e: it was more than a week ago
Ot4e: why do you think they can attack you?
2metraninja: they might want to take our land and refuse NAP with us
Ot4e: this will obviously go against terms of our cooperation against RB
2metraninja: maybe they have relations with RB
2metraninja: but, is your NAP with them bind with cooperation against RB?
Ot4e: by the words they agreed to cooperates
Ot4e: well it is relatively
2metraninja: I was warned by MZ that frenchies use very blurred wprds and generally dont say much firm things
Ot4e: for my understanding yes
2metraninja:
you need to have their understanding and acceptance too
Ot4e: well, I can still say that the agreement needs to pass ratification of ... hmm... left hemisphere of my brain
Ot4e: no that's not good idea )))
2metraninja: hahah
2metraninja: if you proposed them over a week ago, you can just say: Well, it seems you dont like our offer. We are leaving things as they are. If you want we to have some agreement, send us your proposal and we will consider it.
Ot4e: dont worry
Ot4e: i sent them complex offer that they wont just accept
2metraninja: I see
Ot4e: let's see their reaction
2metraninja: this is another reason - if they dont accept it as whole, you can just pull it off
Ot4e: I know, that's still not good
but I will do what I can
Ot4e: cant promise much though
Ot4e: having conflict between you and civfr is outside of my plan
2metraninja: I am not saying we will have, but we cant allow to have second front when we try to fight RB
Ot4e: as I told you, this is more likely our problem than yours
Ot4e: but may be my opinion is one-sided
Ot4e: dont think that civfr can pretend on something alone
Ot4e: they know they are weak
Ot4e: they will see that RB takes liberalism while they only get CS
Ot4e: this must remove pink glasses
2metraninja: just one possible scenario: we fight Zulus, we take their catapults and while we heal, Frenchies capture half zulu cities
2metraninja: do we just leave it like this? I dont think so
2metraninja: we already spent so many resources on this war
Ot4e: they must have another logic:
some dude from CP says that India and Apolyton are allies against RB, but they continue grabbing territory from all the sides, and still cant close borders to RB
Ot4e: and that dumb dude says he needs military to keep RB home
Ot4e: what they do? laugh ?
2metraninja: whipped 20+ pop, chopped 5-10 forrests, pay 25 gpt maintenance for sitting army, starving our cities because we had to tech stupid military techs, spent few hundred gold on emergency upgrades etc, etc
2metraninja: good point about pink glasses (y)
Ot4e: [18 Април 2013 г. 14:17] 2metraninja:
<<< whipped 20+ pop, chopped 5-10 forrests, pay 25 gpt maintenance for sitting army, starving our cities because we had to tech stupid military techs, spent few hundred gold on emergency upgrades etc, etcdo you beleive, that I appreciate it? I also appreciate that you take burden of building taj mahal
2metraninja: did you?
Ot4e: compared to Apolyton you do great job imho
Ot4e: it was a bit sarcastic
Ot4e: but I am seriously on your side
Ot4e: but you must understand
Ot4e: that I only sell air to Civfr
2metraninja:
2metraninja: but there may be need horsehockys to start flying around in the air
2metraninja: when it comes to frenchies
Ot4e: they still have all the reasoning to send us hell with our alliance
Ot4e: if you ask me
Ot4e: i would rather share some zulu's land with them than go into war, letting RB get its first place
2metraninja: yes, I think they will just send us to hell
Ot4e: you have enough handicap
Ot4e: against civfr
2metraninja: now yes, but when frenchies huge land start to repay?
2metraninja: let is say once again - I prefer if frenchies help us against RB, whis will be great
Ot4e: they havent turned our vassals yet, dont get me wrong
2metraninja: but we cant allow to have hostile or uncooperative frenchies on our border and just go to fight RB
2metraninja:
why would I think frenchies are your vassals?
Ot4e: your considerations
Ot4e: imagine yourself on their position
Ot4e: how it looks like
Ot4e: you must show that you are ready to cooperate
Ot4e: also
Ot4e: it is double direction relationship
2metraninja:
while you said you sell them air, we need to gift them our war bounty?
Ot4e: you give small thing to achieve better, may be even win
Ot4e: I'd say yesss
2metraninja: I understand well your reasoning
2metraninja: and I am just theoretisizing here
Ot4e: so you probably understand why I cant promise you much
2metraninja: I understand
Ot4e: even if we get all NAPs between us
Ot4e: they can easily get zulu's city
2metraninja: but maybe our different point of view comes from the different angle we look at the situation and different conclusions we make
Ot4e: i am open to the discussion
2metraninja: I do believe that we 3 can rip apart Frenchies quick and painless and still have time to consolidate against RB
2metraninja: while you think this is impossible and any hostility between us and CivFR will compromise our bigger goal
Ot4e: yes, I think we cant give RB more time
2metraninja: I beleive this can be done before the t175 point
2metraninja: and I believe we MUST have solution to French issue till then, one way or another
2metraninja: if they ally us - great, if not... not bad either
Ot4e: hope they understand that
Ot4e: we cant do it without being slowed
Ot4e: and at the t175 point we will be disassembled
Ot4e: and wont be able to organize anything
2metraninja: 3 nations attacking 1 which is even behind in tech? who will this slow us?
Ot4e: will be easy target for RB
Ot4e: all of us
2metraninja: I think even the opposite
Ot4e: or they just space race
2metraninja: we will have standing armies
Ot4e: standing in another part of the world and dividing lands
Ot4e: behind in tech?
Ot4e: what advantage can you brag with?
2metraninja: at the time we will have some advantage over frenchies I believe
2metraninja: now, this conversation leads us nowhere
2metraninja: we need to concentrate
2metraninja: and decide things one way or another
2metraninja: we need security from frenchies
2metraninja: if you can get them on our wagon, then great
2metraninja: I need to post this in our forum and get discussion going on.
2metraninja: I cant declare wars or accept alliances alone
Ot4e: I am more flexible
Ot4e: but I ask you to be realistic
2metraninja: I am reaslitic I think
2metraninja: and it is 100% real that we cant allow ourselves 2-front war with the the Number1 and Number 2 in score, land, production etc
Ot4e: the things are not that simple
Ot4e: you cant just remove what you dont like
2metraninja: I agree
Ot4e: i wish I could
2metraninja: so we need to have go-around plan
Ot4e: my plan is that frenchie will be scared to do things alone
2metraninja: alone?
2metraninja: when we confront RB in open?
Ot4e: yes, this is impossible without close relations with RB
2metraninja: and what will stop them from write to RB?
2metraninja: and they to clap hands and hug each-other?
Ot4e: obligations
Ot4e: I am trying to put on them
Ot4e: and the view of the situation
2metraninja: ah, but obligations are OK
Ot4e: that I am trying to represent them
2metraninja: of course, if we get them on our wagon
2metraninja: we will be happy
Ot4e: there is no intermediate state
Ot4e: you cant be half dead, half alive
Ot4e: hafly on board and halfly on another
Ot4e: if you are not schrodinger's cat
2metraninja:
exactly
2metraninja: so I cant imagine how Frenchies will be with us, but not much
2metraninja: as a matter of fact, last thing Frenchies had sent us was friendly warning that the zulus were near their border but they disappeared somewhere and they were warning us that those may be come our way
2metraninja: we thanked them and asked about what type and quantity those units were and thats it
2metraninja: no word from them anymore
Ot4e: so was our experience with ottomans
Ot4e: we exchanged with 1 phrases
Ot4e: i sent 3 questions/proposals
Ot4e: and they dissappeared for a couple thousands of years
2metraninja: because I will be asked when I put this to discussion, how is our safety from French going to be guaranteed?
Ot4e: oh, please dont use the fact that I dont have big family I need to feed
2metraninja: hahah, no, I am not using it.
2metraninja: I am serious about this
2metraninja: because for me I am not convinced yet
2metraninja: and to convince others, I need to be convinced first
[ | Edited 16:23:23] 2metraninja: or just project someone elses confidence
2metraninja: by the same way, we must think how you will get security from Uciv
2metraninja: however, Uciv is way less in dangerous position
Ot4e: up to this time, i have arrangements that while RB is strong, horrifying and unbeatable we act together
This though supposes us all to be flexible in several things.
If you feel disadvantaged by this, feel that you need to take something that is naturally yours, feel that you need bloody revenge and domination, I can hardly help you with this.
I cannot guarantee that your appetits will not meet each other. I cant satisfy everyone, that's not my personal job at least.
the thing that I suggest is constructive relations in which we all objectify our expectations. I dont need help from civfr in doing nothing. But I also expect that you from your side will review your priorities as well.
2metraninja: our priorities are clear
2metraninja: need to do something will be back in 10 minutes
[ | Edited 16:46:18] Ot4e: destroying civfr for me seems to be hardly possible
this will give opportunity and great advantage to RB - I am confident
keeping them busy while you comfortly capture zulu I find unnecessary and disconstructive
Ot4e: I am open to consider realistical plan though, if you have one
2metraninja: [18 Април 2013 г. 16:31] Ot4e:
<<< up to this time, i have arrangements that while RB is strong, horrifying and unbeatable we act together
This though supposes us all to be flexible in several things.You have this with Uciv?
2metraninja: or with CivFR?
Ot4e: civfr
Ot4e: with u-civ and with inca i need to start discussion
Ot4e: the land between us and civfr is not rich at all
Ot4e: i wasnt happy when they planted there, that's right
Ot4e: but it is not worth fighting for it
Ot4e: that's the reason why civfr is in the back
Ot4e: they expanded widely
2metraninja: dont get me wrong, I am not bloodthirsty for French blood - we hardly have any deals with them. but I try to think in the near future
2metraninja: I will be 100% honest with you
2metraninja: I had already one of my lieutenants said to me: "Beware, Ot4e is ladder, so is Moineau, they have some hidden agenda together"
2metraninja: next thing I will need to tell my team is you are asking me to give uncaptured cities to CivFR
Ot4e: I hope you decapitate him?
2metraninja: lets say I trust you, how you think those guys will look upon this?
2metraninja: hahah
2metraninja: no, I did not decapitated him
2metraninja: things will be different if you say to me: I have no hidden agenda with Frenchies, CP and CFC will be friends and allies after RB's crash and will not dump you to ally French
Ot4e: [17 Април 2013 г. 16:54] 2metraninja:
<<< I am used to weight and judge people as we speak
2metraninja: you ask me to get involved in a heavy war with the monstrous RB, while you cant say Frenchies are our allies - they will act with us
2metraninja:
2metraninja: I do this all the time.
2metraninja: I know where you started and where we are
2metraninja: I know you are trying to get things going
2metraninja: and for such a thing to start, there must be common tolerance and a bit of credit of belief
Ot4e: I tried to be honest with you
Ot4e: actually I am not being that frank with others
2metraninja: nether am I with others
Ot4e: I beleive
2metraninja: we look at you as our best possible ally
Ot4e: I dont beleive in this 100%
2metraninja: and then, we have high expectations
2metraninja: why you dont believe?
Ot4e: let's say it another way
2metraninja: you fear we are closer with Poly?
Ot4e: yes
2metraninja: just as we fear you might be closer with Frenchies?
Ot4e: you try to avoid three side diplomacy for some reason
2metraninja: not at all
Ot4e: I told you that my relations with frenchie are cold
Ot4e: i said that many times, even to mz
2metraninja: actually, I though it is a way to show you how highly we value our cooperation, that we must have things somewhat agreed on before we include whoerer else we are to include
2metraninja: look, I know MZ
2metraninja: I know he is not fond on organizations
2metraninja: or alliances
2metraninja: he works for himself
2metraninja: he will help us, but as less as possible
2metraninja: if the common goal is not benefitting him most
2metraninja: he is now not in position to be the most benefitting side of the alliance
2metraninja: so he will be not much active
Ot4e: so is civfr
Ot4e: we must change it
Ot4e: I lost idea
Ot4e: what are we arguing about?
Ot4e: you think that I am french agenda?
2metraninja:
you tell me we cant kill frenchies and I am teeling you this is not my goal
Ot4e: why dont you think that I am RB's agenda
2metraninja: no, I dont think so
Ot4e: RB proposed much more ways to cooperate, tbh
2metraninja: but I cant the other guys "Listen to my instincst"
2metraninja: and expect them to support me
Ot4e: but I am by stupied habit willing to fight for the win
Ot4e: and that's why I need to decide which zulu city goes where
Ot4e: considering I dont even have contact with them
2metraninja: I cant comment much on this, but my personal expectation is that you can never gain support from our team if you are arbitrating the spoil of our hard work
2metraninja: did CivFR told you they want cities from Zulu?
Ot4e: lol, no
Ot4e: that's you sacramental idea
Ot4e: i have no clue from what is it coming from
2metraninja:
but then why you are so sure they will feel in their right to ask for land and cities if they never lift a finger?
Ot4e: and I am just trying to find way to describe how stupied it is
Ot4e: look
Ot4e: i dont have telepatic skills yet
2metraninja: I feel I am missing something important here
Ot4e: i just cant make such conditions
2metraninja: so do I
Ot4e: discussing our NAP
Ot4e: like "dont touch our friends-ZULU", with which we dont even have contact
2metraninja: yes, I though this is between our two teams and I am trying to understand where CivFR is getting in from
Ot4e: the only thing i can promise
Ot4e: is to try to make frenchies busy helping us
2metraninja: that would be great
Ot4e: I am not even sure that they agree
Ot4e: or it will be significant
2metraninja: we will on our side try to make NAP and friends with them too
Ot4e: you ask me to make hard choices
Ot4e: "can we trust them?" "ah you dont know, lets destroy them in honour of our cooperation"
2metraninja: why not?
2metraninja: the alternative is we commit to fighting RB while HOPING CivFR will be good guys
2metraninja: it was one idea how we secure our backs
Ot4e: i got it
2metraninja: and something like teambuilding
2metraninja: to test our 3 desired allies determination
2metraninja: if we cant deal with way weaker CivFR, how we hope to stand against the mighty RB?
Ot4e: and be happy with our 3-4-5 place
2metraninja:
its good that you spit out the pebble
2metraninja: well, we could say the very same
2metraninja: "we will throw ourselves in bloody fight with RB just to get overwhelmed after this by fat Frenchies"
2metraninja: I dont say we think this will happen
2metraninja: I now understand that you need Frenchies well and alive to keep balance, right?
2metraninja: and possible ally in the after- RB world too, right?
Ot4e: you opened my eyes
2metraninja: about what?
Ot4e: why ever I defend frenchies so hard
Ot4e: i just look 100 turns forward
2metraninja: heheh
2metraninja: ok, lets drop this
Ot4e: thank you
2metraninja: lets concentrate on RB
Ot4e: I am heading home now
2metraninja: so am I
Ot4e: hope that we can finish it on something positive
Ot4e: i promise to think about our campaign against french
2metraninja: no, no
Ot4e: but now I dont see how it can happen
2metraninja: look, I value this
2metraninja: but it is not even necessary
2metraninja: I think you miss something
2metraninja: you think we will keep busy with Zulus
2metraninja: and then with French and dont give enough attention to fighting RB
2metraninja: which is not the case
2metraninja: if we set date and goal, we will follow it
2metraninja: we are not fond on killing Frenchs
2metraninja: just you saying you had bad blood between you and them and Poly having the same made me think of it
