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Full Screen diplomacy, is that really what we wanted?

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@city builder

The civ 4 webcam screens as you put them are just as imposing, and the fact that they are smaller is more annoying because when i get one i want to be able to click on the diplomacy overview to see my current deals or whatever before agreeing to anything, but i simply can't.

I just tried this in Civ IV BTS and could open up the advisor panels while I still have a nations web cam like panel open in the middle of my screen just fine. Don't know why I can and you can't.

As the person said above me, it is part of this that I am concerned of in Civ V, having the full screen diplo open and not being able to see any advisor screen info would be a bad thing for me.
 
I don't use the function keys, and i'm not about to start. But i didn't know that, thanks. I shall try it, might make trades more informative.
 
I don't use the function keys, and i'm not about to start. But i didn't know that, thanks. I shall try it, might make trades more informative.

Honestly, I could not imagine a game like Civ not allowing me to gather all the information that I 'believe' I need before making a decission (that would drop it out of it's 'exhaulted game status' a lot for me), hopefully through the use of hotkeys, which I really don't care for either, we'll still be able to open up information panels before having to make decisions. Seriously, I can't imagine playing without being able to gather as much information as I can in Civ IV. Seeing as others however, didn't even know they could get to that information when the other nations screens are up, I guess it doesn't much matter to at least some of the Civ players.

I asked on the 2K Civ V forums about this and the diplo screen but nobody official has stated either way, I take that to mean either they have not seen the thread, or that it's not possible but they'd rather not admit to it.
 
People find the wierdest stuff to complain about - almost like digging for something...anything.

The leader screens aren't something that...

I don't care.

Yeah, that's how I feel about them.
 
Just tried it worked perfectly, don't know why it didn't work for me so long ago that i never tried again, how bizarre.

Anyway with all this information now at my fingertips I certainly don't want to give it up, hopefully there will be an easy way to get advisors info when in the diplomatic screens, and they should totally be notifications not pop-ups, I thought that was why that feature was put in. Things to be modded i guess.
 
Its funny how "what the fans wanted" turns out to be whatever feature they've decided to invest in.

Yes, sure, they made the perfect game :mischief:.

No more interrupting than the smaller diplo popups in civ 4 that stopped you right in your tracks.

I thought it was ironic how they explained that there new notification system stopped annoying popups, and then we saw several in a row. (in the stream)

Congratulations for stopping research and choose production pop ups, now how about sorting out the rest.

Don't half do a job, either have all the stuff popping up, or have none of it.

Oh, i have to second this.
At the Gamescom i got in one turn 7 notifications about different things, i stood there just thinking "whoa, how to deal with all that stuff".


Oh, yeah, ontopic, i don't care.
It's nice, but i'd rather like to have the detailed diplomacy overview than the detailed leaders.
 
Who cares whether it's "what we wanted"? For crying out loud, if they waited to please everyone and service every ridiculous constituency we'd never get the game. It's what we got.

As for what people can and cannot imagine playing without: wait until you've played to decide that. It's beyond tiresome to read about one feature or another that YOU would would have added or deleted if you were the lead designer. I'm sure ciV won't be a perfect game. I'm sure I'll have opinions and pet peeves, but I'm going to play the game as presented before I decide that fully animated leaders (or whatever particular gamer fetish you're carrying water for) doesn't help the immersion/game play/fun and is a waste of time.
 
"They've been asking for full-screen leader screens for a while. They want to be part of those moments. They want to be part of that realism. They want to believe that they're in the scene. That is definitely fan-driven."

I've just got to ask the fans, us, is this what we really wanted?

No, you're right, they've dropped the ball on this one. The fans hate realism.
Most fans would rather the majority of the game was in simple black-and-white or at most sepia graphics so they could focus extremely on what must be better gameplay elements, like the combat system.

More to elaborate plus my viewpoint: The fan community will divide into partisan and contradictory camps about most anything - this is true about most videogames in general though. But you have thread after thread and so on where some fans will say they hate realism so you'd think they must be against this - but others are the opposite, and then you have people who contradict their own views anyway at a whim and who knows.

I personally wasn't crazy about fleshing out leaders more like this, it's low on the list of actual "realism" things I would have wanted (better city views, palaces, advisors and so on I would have put first) and could be considered overall a distraction of resources from gameplay. For instance I'd still rather have more options in the diplomacy screen, I still worry we'll never have meaningful reasons to interact with other civs a continent away. No techs to trade or anything similarly ubiquitous, no one's going to want to trade many resources because they would lose happiness/strategic resources, and when you meet someone on another continent you probably won't care much about their secrecy pacts and so on against their neighbors.

But the bottom line: In this case, it's very very obvious why the devs did this, because it comes out as a polished and high-class result in the final product, that makes for great advertising and casual promotion of gameplay. Can't deny the leaders do look snazzy. No matter if they destroyed or excelled at some abstract part of gameplay, that wouldn't impinge on the public's views and sales of the game and so on. And there's nothing wrong with this imo, maybe I wish we had full control of sound/similar options, but otherwise I'm cool with it.

edit: One more thing - in vanilla civ4 there's already an option to "disable pop-ups" by now anyway, can't recall if it was in the original but definitely by BtS. It works almost exactly the same as what we saw in civ5, I thought that was a weird thing for them to be talking about in the preview - we already can turn off tech, building notifications and so on until we're ready later in a turn.

Oh and one more thing on top of that. The game HAS to have "pop-ups" during AI turns for diplomacy. There's no other way, unless they did something stupid to cripple the AI just for human "comfort." If it's the AI turn and they need to talk to you for diplomacy, before they end their turn/it goes to another AI, that is going to have to be a popup. No way around that one, I think that might be a couple of instances people saw though. I do believe they've been honest about giving options/removing popups in general, and I also believe it's, like, not much of a change from civ4, but I've got to say some of this criticism could have been mistaken.
 
Oh and one more thing on top of that. The game HAS to have "pop-ups" during AI turns for diplomacy. There's no other way, unless they did something stupid to cripple the AI just for human "comfort." If it's the AI turn and they need to talk to you for diplomacy, before they end their turn/it goes to another AI, that is going to have to be a popup. No way around that one, I think that might be a couple of instances people saw though. I do believe they've been honest about giving options/removing popups in general, and I also believe it's, like, not much of a change from civ4, but I've got to say some of this criticism could have been mistaken.

Well, I think it can work like diplomacy between humans in hotseat/pbem games - they propose something in their turn, and you open the proposal in your turn. The exact time when a proposal is accepted usually doesn't have a significant impact on the gameplay.
 
I'm fairly certain it didn't work until BTS. Might have been Warlords, but I don't recall the middle fuzzy part. But fairly certain vanilla Civ4 on release wouldn't let you into the advisor screens in the middle of a diplo-call.
 
Oh it certainly does, but also because humans can arrange deals outside of the diplo screen. Two human players in sequence in a multiplayer leading a surprise attack/invasion is huge compared to if one had to wait another turn.

With the AI, it HAS to go through a diplo screen to do something like declare war and many things like trade for a crucial resource are still time-sensitive, so it really is important something gets done one turn over the next. What's more silly though is if the only exception is made for the human player - if other AI resolve things instantly and a human waits till their turn, that leads to discrepancies, could actually be bad for the human sometimes too.


about advisor screens- I don't know when it changed but I am 100% it works in BtS, and do hope that is preserved in civ5
 
Declaring war is something that the AI can do in its turn without asking the human player for permission :)
 
Personally, I would have rather them focus on other things. The leaders are just there to wow the reviewers like IGN and Gamespot who only care about graphics and not a winkling about gameplay.
 
I hope you can have various advisers whisper stuff to you during a diplomatic meet, like (their friends are the french and the Chinese) and stuff like that. or (They seemed afraid of our mobilizing army) or (Our army still is superior to their large one.)
 
I think it's a waste of financial resources, the talking heads were fine. But I guess its cool.
 
Personally I would be satisfied with just a picture. I don't get why a few people seem to care so much about useless details.
 
Personally I would be satisfied with just a picture. I don't get why a few people seem to care so much about useless details.

If immersion/visual eye candy is "useless" to you, then you might as well be playing a spreadsheet. It may be not be "what I/we have always wanted", but it helps to flesh out your opponents, and make them feel more real (Not that any computer opponent will 'feel real' until we invent a proper heuristic AI).
 
If immersion/visual eye candy is "useless" to you, then you might as well be playing a spreadsheet. It may be not be "what I/we have always wanted", but it helps to flesh out your opponents, and make them feel more real (Not that any computer opponent will 'feel real' until we invent a proper heuristic AI).

I would say that the games I play most frequently is the original Colonization, Settlers II and OpenTTD, which is modded version of Transport Tycoon. These games are from 1994. I play these games because I think that they gameplay in these games are so much better than in the new ones. I wouldn't mind playing the entire game from the strategic view.

The things we should ask for is an advanced AI that doesn't have to cheat and more complexity... Things that actually makes the game more challenging.
 
I don't think the fullscreen diplomacy adds anything to the game. I don't think that was on very many 'fans' lists of priorities. I think it helps simple players to enjoy the game if you give them a cartoon to watch because all that number / planning / strategy stuff is so old-hat
 
Bigger is better. I never played Civ1 and vaguely remember Civ2 but maybe this will make diplomacy more "zen-like".
 
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