Somebody613
Deity
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- Nov 18, 2019
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I'm confused.
Is this a MAP, a SCENARIO, or a MOD?
Is this a MAP, a SCENARIO, or a MOD?
GEM2.0
- Thread starter J in Vegas
- Start date
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- Tags
- c2c gem map gem map
J in Vegas
Chieftain
There will be 2 maps to start with, old and new world start. I need the modders to finish adding the right civs and setting it up so you can play all 40 at the start instead of 5.
Longer term there will be a scenario (really a MOD), GEM2.0 earth simulator that will incorporate some of the changes above in this thread.
Even longer term once the nomadic start mod is done I should have the changing climate maps done and the modders will incorporate that into their mod, and also create GEM3.0 by using GEM2.0 mod and adding the nomadic start and changing climate feature combined.
Kind of like
Rise of mankind》a new dawn》 caveman to cosmos
Everything builds off the last to make it better.
Longer term there will be a scenario (really a MOD), GEM2.0 earth simulator that will incorporate some of the changes above in this thread.
Even longer term once the nomadic start mod is done I should have the changing climate maps done and the modders will incorporate that into their mod, and also create GEM3.0 by using GEM2.0 mod and adding the nomadic start and changing climate feature combined.
Kind of like
Rise of mankind》a new dawn》 caveman to cosmos
Everything builds off the last to make it better.
Last edited:
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Update:
While trying to add the new civs for the new world start I ran into a roadblock and need help. How do you remove a civ from the pool of civs in a worldbuilder save? I tried killing them off, they just show up (DEAD). I used the kill feature on the player edit mode, and it removes them from the game, but they are still in the list of players in the player edit mode. I want to access the original civs that I did not choose when adding the players. When I try to use the "add a player" button, nothing happens. Normally you get a list of civs that have not been used that can be added to the game as a player. I am lost. Not sure if this can only be done on the code side of the game, and not via worldbuilder. Until this issue is fixed I cannot finish adding the players unless I use the wrong civs in the right places and just have the modder fix it later. Sorry, I'm not very good at this stuff.
While trying to add the new civs for the new world start I ran into a roadblock and need help. How do you remove a civ from the pool of civs in a worldbuilder save? I tried killing them off, they just show up (DEAD). I used the kill feature on the player edit mode, and it removes them from the game, but they are still in the list of players in the player edit mode. I want to access the original civs that I did not choose when adding the players. When I try to use the "add a player" button, nothing happens. Normally you get a list of civs that have not been used that can be added to the game as a player. I am lost. Not sure if this can only be done on the code side of the game, and not via worldbuilder. Until this issue is fixed I cannot finish adding the players unless I use the wrong civs in the right places and just have the modder fix it later. Sorry, I'm not very good at this stuff.
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Update GEM3.0 climate simulator.
Been doing a bunch of research into this. I am running a game currently with Sumerian using my old world final map from above, using long speed. I am making an excel spreadsheet with every turn, making notes on the year, the amount of years per turn, what tech is unlocked using a difficulty setting I picked, etc. The game starts with 1 turn being 769 years, with 13 turns being 10,000 years. At this speed, the map will be changing approximately every 10 turns at this speed, you could see the map change every 5 turns at certain points. Long term, every major volcano will have a turn that it goes off on, same with other events. So instead of saying the event happened 47000YBP, I can say it happened on turn 357. This is important so the modder can input everything into the game correctly and the events go off at the right times.
Some major events for the game.
Youngest TOBA super volcano eruption 73,700YBP - This event is considered to the biggest volcanic event that has happened to modern humans. Any units or cities in SE Asia or Indonesia are destroyed via the blast radius and/or ash fallout. It supposedly caused a human bottleneck where humans where almost wiped out globally. In the scenario I envision, there will be multiple events like this that cause damage locally and weather changes globally. I want to use the burnt forest terrain tile for damaged areas. I did not use that tile anywhere in the map, it is going to be used for events only. There will be a map change on that turn, and it would be nice if a pop up window appeared, stating what is happening. With certain events I would like to use the "storm feature" to show increased weather disruptions caused by events. If the turns are still 769 years per turn, maybe you see 10x the storms globally for 2 turns. The planet was already entering into the deep freeze before the eruption, it only accelerated the process short term.
The Barringer meteor impact- Localized to 1 square around the crater, but everything is destroyed once the event happens. Time frame is 50000YBP There shouldn't be any civs there yet, so it will not be seen or effect anyone. That natural wonder should not be on the map until after that event happens.
Normal forest fires. Once the turn/year speed gets down to 1 turn=10 years or under, the forest burning events can start to happen. Certain forests and savannas burn regularly, as part of their ecosystem. Once the event happens, you get a burnt forest, then a young forest, then eventually the original forest returns. This should be happening almost constantly in certain areas.
Krakatau volcano explosion- 1883AD,535AD,
Ilopango volcano eruption(el salvodor)- 431AD
Mt Vesuvius (ITALY) 79AD
Got to do some some now. Be back later.
Been doing a bunch of research into this. I am running a game currently with Sumerian using my old world final map from above, using long speed. I am making an excel spreadsheet with every turn, making notes on the year, the amount of years per turn, what tech is unlocked using a difficulty setting I picked, etc. The game starts with 1 turn being 769 years, with 13 turns being 10,000 years. At this speed, the map will be changing approximately every 10 turns at this speed, you could see the map change every 5 turns at certain points. Long term, every major volcano will have a turn that it goes off on, same with other events. So instead of saying the event happened 47000YBP, I can say it happened on turn 357. This is important so the modder can input everything into the game correctly and the events go off at the right times.
Some major events for the game.
Youngest TOBA super volcano eruption 73,700YBP - This event is considered to the biggest volcanic event that has happened to modern humans. Any units or cities in SE Asia or Indonesia are destroyed via the blast radius and/or ash fallout. It supposedly caused a human bottleneck where humans where almost wiped out globally. In the scenario I envision, there will be multiple events like this that cause damage locally and weather changes globally. I want to use the burnt forest terrain tile for damaged areas. I did not use that tile anywhere in the map, it is going to be used for events only. There will be a map change on that turn, and it would be nice if a pop up window appeared, stating what is happening. With certain events I would like to use the "storm feature" to show increased weather disruptions caused by events. If the turns are still 769 years per turn, maybe you see 10x the storms globally for 2 turns. The planet was already entering into the deep freeze before the eruption, it only accelerated the process short term.
The Barringer meteor impact- Localized to 1 square around the crater, but everything is destroyed once the event happens. Time frame is 50000YBP There shouldn't be any civs there yet, so it will not be seen or effect anyone. That natural wonder should not be on the map until after that event happens.
Normal forest fires. Once the turn/year speed gets down to 1 turn=10 years or under, the forest burning events can start to happen. Certain forests and savannas burn regularly, as part of their ecosystem. Once the event happens, you get a burnt forest, then a young forest, then eventually the original forest returns. This should be happening almost constantly in certain areas.
Krakatau volcano explosion- 1883AD,535AD,
Ilopango volcano eruption(el salvodor)- 431AD
Mt Vesuvius (ITALY) 79AD
Got to do some some now. Be back later.
J in Vegas
Chieftain
At work now on break, wanted to go some of the research I'm been doing. So it looks like northern Africa had multiple river systems that fed into the mediterranean sea, and Arabia was much wetter with multiple river valley's flowing to what was the Persian gulf, but in a lower sea level it was a river system that dumped into the indian ocean. Arabia and the middle east becomes extremely critical for humans, as much or more so than africa for the AMHs that left africa in multiple waves. It was the basis for the L3 halogroup that all humans that left africa have. More to come.
Attachments
I have bumped an old map making guide that I used when making SEM+ and LEM maps. Should help you in removing Civs. etc.
C2C map making tutorial.
If you do not have it, you need the free Notepad++.
Also, as you keep mentioning it: there are no set in place modders. Just individuals like yourself.
But everyone will be happy to help you if they can,
Best of luck.
C2C map making tutorial.
If you do not have it, you need the free Notepad++.
Also, as you keep mentioning it: there are no set in place modders. Just individuals like yourself.
But everyone will be happy to help you if they can,
Best of luck.
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J in Vegas
Chieftain
I will probably make 2 maps of the 20 that are for the the min and max for the sunspot/solar cycles. These 2 plus the 2020 base map will be toggled back and forth based on the established timeliness for the solar grand minimums and maximums. Once the holocene reaches to about 1000BC there will be only minor changes to the map, cycling between the 3 maps. Notice on the attached file, we just left an almost 90 year maximum, with a return to a Grand solar minimum that should run to at least 2050 or so. In hope the people in Texas get ready for more polar vortex events like this week in the future as cold weather will be returning to certain spot around the globe for the foreseeable future.
Attachments
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Some ideas for the barbarians for the Gem2.0/3.0 game. Have 1 slot be for the Neanderthals, and change the other slot to the Denisovans. Let me explain. Both of these archaic humans left Africa before AMH's did, and were already established in their respective areas at the start of the game. Both of them should be on the same team, permanent alliance from the start. I would also give Neanderthals artic 1+2 for every unit they have, build, or spawn. I would give the Denisovans artic 1 only. They are set at a certain level of technology, with the Neanderthals slightly more advance. Maybe both start with clubman at 200k while humans only have rock throwers. And then at 130k, Neanderthals get their trademark "spearguy" at 4 Strength. But that is it. They do not advance anymore. Also, since both populations were very low due to injury, disease, low fertility rate, etc, cities cannot grow past 1 ever. Set the unhealthy level very high so there is very little pop growth. Also, the animals should be at war with them like the human civs. At 70kBP, once the TOBA event happens, both archaic humans go into decline, with a further acceleration at 40K. By 24kBP, Neanderthals are gone, and Denisovans are gone by 14kBP.
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Timeline from the test game so far.
Turn 0-26 200,000-180,000BP Similar climate to now, slight cooling.
Turn 26-89 180,000-130,000BP Riss Glacial period. Rapid cooling, was a worst averaged ice age than the last one. Not as deep of an ocean drop at the very end, but a more prolonged cold period. With the turns at 769 during this period, the maps will be changing fast.
Turn 90-104 The Eemian interglacial only goes from 130kBP to 120kBP, or approximately 14 turns only. It will be only 3 turns to melt all the ice. Massive map changes on turn 90~92. Probably 1 map change per turn for 3 turns.
Info on game in attached pics. For some reason Mongolia was killed of on turn 1, must of been a spawned animal on the tribe square. Had to re-add them on turn 60. lol/
Turn 0-26 200,000-180,000BP Similar climate to now, slight cooling.
Turn 26-89 180,000-130,000BP Riss Glacial period. Rapid cooling, was a worst averaged ice age than the last one. Not as deep of an ocean drop at the very end, but a more prolonged cold period. With the turns at 769 during this period, the maps will be changing fast.
Turn 90-104 The Eemian interglacial only goes from 130kBP to 120kBP, or approximately 14 turns only. It will be only 3 turns to melt all the ice. Massive map changes on turn 90~92. Probably 1 map change per turn for 3 turns.
Info on game in attached pics. For some reason Mongolia was killed of on turn 1, must of been a spawned animal on the tribe square. Had to re-add them on turn 60. lol/
Attachments
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J in Vegas
Chieftain
Some ideas for tech in the prehistoric era.
There are a few areas here that I feel are not historically right and want to bring to light. Maybe changes can be made?
Controlled fire:
I feel that this should be the first tech to unlock, and only tech. Controlled fire and the wonder captured fire predate this game by 100,000 years, and should be the first thing that you can research. I understand why it was added where it was, but captured fire is the starting feature the separates humans from all other animals, and it should be first. All other eras have a starting tech, and the prehistoric era should be no different. I would move the controlled fire to the front of the line, and have that area that it was at be blank and just pass to the next tech. Also, there should be no wood gatherer pre-rec needed for this, any vegetation will burn. I would move the fire myth to oral tradition. I am not a big fan of language tech being where speech should be. Language should be around 50kBP, not at 195kBP. Basic words are before complex language.
Canine domestication:
This one is all wrong. Wolf started there own domestication with humans at 100kBP, with the completion at 30kBP. Wolfs got food, shelter, protection; humans got a hunting partner, and there was a synergy between the 2. Dogs pushed humans beyond apex predator to hyper apex predator, and helped push humans past the Neanderthals. The fact that this tech is past animal domestication versus being way before has always bothered me. The other issue is that with the thief/rogue/exile part of the game, you do not have a choice on what to do with this, as dogs come so late vs when the banditry units come. Having a wolf/dog unit that comes earlier would help counter the lopsidedness of the prehistoric game when it comes to these units. I would have the wolf/dog unit have a strength at 1.3~1.6. Once you reach animal domestication it would go to the usual level. I would have canine domestication moved to between hunting and portable shelters. Wolfs followed us from hunting, then starting hanging with humans as we formed temporary cities.
There are a few areas here that I feel are not historically right and want to bring to light. Maybe changes can be made?
Controlled fire:
I feel that this should be the first tech to unlock, and only tech. Controlled fire and the wonder captured fire predate this game by 100,000 years, and should be the first thing that you can research. I understand why it was added where it was, but captured fire is the starting feature the separates humans from all other animals, and it should be first. All other eras have a starting tech, and the prehistoric era should be no different. I would move the controlled fire to the front of the line, and have that area that it was at be blank and just pass to the next tech. Also, there should be no wood gatherer pre-rec needed for this, any vegetation will burn. I would move the fire myth to oral tradition. I am not a big fan of language tech being where speech should be. Language should be around 50kBP, not at 195kBP. Basic words are before complex language.
Canine domestication:
This one is all wrong. Wolf started there own domestication with humans at 100kBP, with the completion at 30kBP. Wolfs got food, shelter, protection; humans got a hunting partner, and there was a synergy between the 2. Dogs pushed humans beyond apex predator to hyper apex predator, and helped push humans past the Neanderthals. The fact that this tech is past animal domestication versus being way before has always bothered me. The other issue is that with the thief/rogue/exile part of the game, you do not have a choice on what to do with this, as dogs come so late vs when the banditry units come. Having a wolf/dog unit that comes earlier would help counter the lopsidedness of the prehistoric game when it comes to these units. I would have the wolf/dog unit have a strength at 1.3~1.6. Once you reach animal domestication it would go to the usual level. I would have canine domestication moved to between hunting and portable shelters. Wolfs followed us from hunting, then starting hanging with humans as we formed temporary cities.
Attachments
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Continued:
Agriculture:
This is my other issue with the prehistoric start. It is a classic chicken and the egg scenario with a misstep missing. At turn 36(172kBP), I use my free gatherer and get wheat to my city. This is not even close to historically right. The free gather should be able at that timeframe to gather fruit, and scavenge meat sources. That is it. All carb sources should not be able to be accessed to later on . There is a difference from getting fruit from a tree vs. processing a carb that cannot be eaten directly from the plant source. The game is missing a transient tech that bridges gathering from agriculture. I suggest that there be a added tech called "transient Agriculture" after slash and burn tech.
Second issue is with agriculture being after sedentary life. People had a secure food source before settling down, not after. And major wonders, I.E. Megalithic structures where built after a cheap food was secured. I would move Agriculture to the prehistoric era right before megalithic structures. Just connect sedentary life to pottery and pass thru the old spot.
This should get a good discussion going.
Agriculture:
This is my other issue with the prehistoric start. It is a classic chicken and the egg scenario with a misstep missing. At turn 36(172kBP), I use my free gatherer and get wheat to my city. This is not even close to historically right. The free gather should be able at that timeframe to gather fruit, and scavenge meat sources. That is it. All carb sources should not be able to be accessed to later on . There is a difference from getting fruit from a tree vs. processing a carb that cannot be eaten directly from the plant source. The game is missing a transient tech that bridges gathering from agriculture. I suggest that there be a added tech called "transient Agriculture" after slash and burn tech.
Second issue is with agriculture being after sedentary life. People had a secure food source before settling down, not after. And major wonders, I.E. Megalithic structures where built after a cheap food was secured. I would move Agriculture to the prehistoric era right before megalithic structures. Just connect sedentary life to pottery and pass thru the old spot.
This should get a good discussion going.
Attachments
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
This is much of the point - there's actually some time you can use these units without dogs autoconfounding them. We'd have to make an earlier weaker version of dogs to do what you're suggesting and lone wolves are already nearly stronger. Maybe some thought will be further put into this later but seriously, early tech tree is too worked and reworked to be open to any changes for some years to come right now. Unit balances are a ***** when you start moving techs around. As for the fire, it was a matter of FEELING the discovery, and we have found there needs to be a balance of competing first selections that are all equally as compelling from a larger strategy perspective so some of it is not as much about 'simulation' as it is about game choice weights being roughly equal on all 3 initial options.
You CAN do things about earlier crime units. Scouts and other criminals can see through the camo and LE units and other criminals can see through the disguise. AKA, it's an era to fight fire with fire mostly. I had the design as I intended it but it wasn't understood and it was changed around a bit as if there was a problem with it - where not being on H&S was involved anyhow so now what we have I have to review again because it confuses ME now.
Where dogs are now also makes it trickier to grow. It forces you to have to choose between their visual protections and training tribes as a priority.
This is a good point but I think you're talking about a tech I'd call 'Harvesting', that would give access and visibility to 'grain' resources.
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Hello again, been super busy with work. But I do have a free second to go over a few things.
Update to the timeline in the game. Played the test game to 200 turns. Saves are around 3700 so far. The year to turn ratio changed on turn 195, or 49997BC. Now the turns starting 196 are 195 years per turn versus 769.
Turn 0-26 200,000-180,000BP Similar climate to now, slight cooling.
Turn 26-89 180,000-130,000BP Riss Glacial period. Rapid cooling, was a worst averaged ice age than the last one. Not as deep of an ocean drop at the very end, but a more prolonged cold period. With the turns at 769 during this period, the maps will be changing fast.
Turn 90-104 The Eemian interglacial only goes from 130kBP to 120kBP, or approximately 14 turns only. It will be only 3 turns to melt all the ice. Massive map changes on turn 90~92. Probably 1 map change per turn for 3 turns.
Turn 105-120 This is a fast free fall into the next Glacial period.120kBP to 109kBP.
Turn 121-150 Slight raise back into close to interglacial temps. 109kBP to 86kBP
Turn 151-165 Rapid fall back into glacial. 86kBP to 74kBP
Turn 166 Toba volcano explosion 74kBP
Turn 167-180 Deep glacial period. 74kBP to 63kBP
Turn 181-200 Yo-Yo period of cold temps setting up the last plunge into the coldest part of the GP1. 63kBP to 52kBP
With the change in turn times we can really enjoy the extra cold part of the GP1, and it will allow the demise of the archaic humans, and allow players/civs that want to make the trek to either Australia or The New World via the Bering strait the opportunity to due so. I purposely put in either barren or marsh every 5 squares to allow players to make the march across the strait with terrain damage and still be able to make it. You must stop every 5 turns and heal before marching again. Crossing the Wallace line will be more complex and will involve the "nomadic start" secret sauce for that to work.
Update to the timeline in the game. Played the test game to 200 turns. Saves are around 3700 so far. The year to turn ratio changed on turn 195, or 49997BC. Now the turns starting 196 are 195 years per turn versus 769.
Turn 0-26 200,000-180,000BP Similar climate to now, slight cooling.
Turn 26-89 180,000-130,000BP Riss Glacial period. Rapid cooling, was a worst averaged ice age than the last one. Not as deep of an ocean drop at the very end, but a more prolonged cold period. With the turns at 769 during this period, the maps will be changing fast.
Turn 90-104 The Eemian interglacial only goes from 130kBP to 120kBP, or approximately 14 turns only. It will be only 3 turns to melt all the ice. Massive map changes on turn 90~92. Probably 1 map change per turn for 3 turns.
Turn 105-120 This is a fast free fall into the next Glacial period.120kBP to 109kBP.
Turn 121-150 Slight raise back into close to interglacial temps. 109kBP to 86kBP
Turn 151-165 Rapid fall back into glacial. 86kBP to 74kBP
Turn 166 Toba volcano explosion 74kBP
Turn 167-180 Deep glacial period. 74kBP to 63kBP
Turn 181-200 Yo-Yo period of cold temps setting up the last plunge into the coldest part of the GP1. 63kBP to 52kBP
With the change in turn times we can really enjoy the extra cold part of the GP1, and it will allow the demise of the archaic humans, and allow players/civs that want to make the trek to either Australia or The New World via the Bering strait the opportunity to due so. I purposely put in either barren or marsh every 5 squares to allow players to make the march across the strait with terrain damage and still be able to make it. You must stop every 5 turns and heal before marching again. Crossing the Wallace line will be more complex and will involve the "nomadic start" secret sauce for that to work.
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J in Vegas
Chieftain
And this will be another major event. 42000BP 800 years long, or 4 turns at the 195 years per turn.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/02/19/world/magnetic-fields-earth-intl-scli-scn/index.html
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/02/19/world/magnetic-fields-earth-intl-scli-scn/index.html
J in Vegas
Chieftain
Still here, been extremely busy with both jobs, had almost 0 computer time. I think I logged my test game to turn 400 only. Hopefully work will calm down after March and I can get back to this side project.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Oyvey - I know the feeling!
miccal2000
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2006
- Messages
- 210
Hello!
If this is thread necromancy, I apologize in advance!
Just was wondering if this is still an active project, please.
Thanks!
If this is thread necromancy, I apologize in advance!
Just was wondering if this is still an active project, please.
Thanks!
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
User's last activity was April
