Even in a deflation money is still spent - people are not going to starve while they wait for their money to get more and more valuable. This alone should prevent a "runaway deflation".
But FIAT money mostly seems to have advantages for certain powerful parties, who can (and will) get their way no matter if it better for everyone (or anyone) else.
But if you think FIAT money is generally better, do you think the call to "mint the coin" is a good idea? Should they mint this coin to avoid the debt ceiling, or perhaps mint 30 coins and get rid of the national debt altogether? Should they mint 40 coins and lower the taxes? What would the effect be?
I can understand the proponents of the gold standard rejecting this idea, but for a proponent of FIAT this should look a lot better.
I don't see how any of this is relevant to the issue of balancing the game, but I'm assuming by "mint the coin" you mean the joke idea someone had of minting a coin worth several trillion dollars in order to pay off the debt? That's the same as paying off debt by printing more money - you're basically just converting debt to inflation. One problem for another.
(Also, why are you capitalizing "FIAT" like that, it looks really weird.)
@Maltazard ,
Good post. Good summation.
@Somebody613
Civics were Never meant to be " Balanced". Get over that presumption.
@Typical_Name ,
Precious metals (ie Gold, Silver, etc) have Always been the solid economic trade model thru out History. Any time a civilization gets away from it, that Civilization eventually fails because the elite manipulate their form of "currency" to rob everyone else but themselves.
I don't know which form of "economics" you got your degree in, and it really is irrelevant anyway to this.
Yes, Sid did base the game model on Gold. So why do you want it changed? And do you think your idea/concern is new to this Mod or Civ IV BtS? Albeit the current scam of bitcoin and the insidious and enslaving CBDC idea are not included. Both of these evils will be exposed for what they really are. Have you heard about Sam Fried and his Billion dollar bitcoin scam called FTX? Perhaps you are a Yuval Noah Harari/Klaus Schwab fan and want a digital chip put under your skin so that you can never really own anything again? Digital slavery anyone?!
Back to gameplay, actually Metals or Coin are as viable an option as Gold Standard in the Currency Civic category. The rest are situational Civics.
Many Civic groups have situational Civics as well. It's how you choose your Civics to mesh together that constitutes your Game play Model for that particular game. Along with Leaders/Civilizations/etc that you make choices over. There will Always be a Best Civic in each Category per your own playstyle. How you interact and mesh these choices is totally up to you. Game play style. Don't try to remove other players game play style.
There will always be a Bad Civic choice in each category too. Maybe several.
If this comes across as dismissive to you, then all I can say is this: longevity at testing, modding, and Years of gameplay experience trumps your case. Nothing is new under the sun, and much the same for this Epic Mod.
There is an Old Old rule to Modding, sometimes you just have to tell the player no.
@raxo2222 ,
Hmmm....what is your point?
You really need to go back and fix some of the building problems you created by stripping out or reducing to irrelevance the yields they used to give.
As gatekeeper to Pepper's Mod, it should have been evaluated much much longer than it was before it was included into this Mod. It still has glaring problems.
Because of the recent Cultural changes
@Blazenclaw has made to the Mod, there will be tweaks to many Civics accordingly. Will they get finished before the soon coming New version? Probably not. I am Play testing thru the Industrial era right now. Many more eras to go.
Jesus christ dude, calm down. Why are you talking about irrelevant nonsense like bitcoin and digital chips? Bitcoin is a horrible idea that combines the flaws of both gold and fiat into one dysfunctional currency primarily used by libertarian cultists (ironically the same people who often like the gold standard) and criminals. (Also, bitcoin would probably go under the "digital" currency civic, which currently isn't very representative of what such a currency would be like.)
Anyways, you clearly don't know economic history if you think the gold standard has always been solid.
The Declaration of Independence Listed all the reasons for the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution lays out, with the Bill of Rights, How this Independence will be instituted and maintained. Especially when the Gov't is no longer for the People or by the People. We have reached that point. The current Admin is in fact a coup and they are selling America to the Chinese. Have been selling America to them since 1971 when Nixon visited them back then. Deals were made and the US Gov't has been funneling money to China for decades. Pres Trump put a choke hold on that while he was in office. The current Admin is deeply in bed with XI.
Are you American? Natural Born?
... Are you even listening to yourself? How could you believe that the government is "deeply in bed with Xi" while they push through this insane expansion of government power (supposedly to "ban tiktok") explicitly for the purpose of combating China? I sure WISH our administration was collaborating with China, the PRC is one of the biggest forces for good in the world (admittedly, this is more because the world is terrible than the PRC being good), that'd be a lot better than our current regime.
And wtf is it with you asking if someone is "American", especially "Natural Born"? That sounds racist as hell.
The US is a Constitutional Republic period. But the ones that want the USA destroyed add in the words Democracy and Federal. The USA will return to the Constitution Republic it is supposed to be. Not what the Bidenites/socialists want it to be.
Wtf are you on about, socialists HATE Biden, and Biden hates us, as has almost every president in the past. (The only president I can think of who wasn't explicitly anti-socialist in some way was Lincoln, who apparently exchanged letters with Marx. You could also argue that FDR took some ideas from the socialists, but that was more to stabilize capitalism and prevent communists from further growing political support.)
Anyway I think we went a little off topic. Wasn't this because someone on Discord disagreed that Gold Standard ought to be the best currency civic?
I mean I think I kinda agree because honestly gold would lose it's value if we began asteroid mining and mined out massive tonnage worths of the substance. Only through possible supply and price manipulation by government forces, the very same forces
@JosEPh_II distrusts and trusts the gold over, could keep it stable for use as currency. Which is why I believe the whole insistence on gold being the best currency is mostly right wing paranoia at play, a paranoia that doesn't understand that gold is susceptible to the same price and supply fluctuations as the oil market (the so called basis of the dreaded "petro-dollar" which the right fears so much).
Only if people started buying and selling goods directly under the table with gold coins they bought could it actually work without government intervention so long as all parties involved in a transaction just all agree to how much it's worth in relation to the good to be bought or sold. You know peer to peer, everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for. Unfortunately like all things under the table such parallel currencies are illegal as they allow one to easily dodge taxation, long prison sentences through the state's monopolization of violence would prevent any merchant from ever daring to accept the risk of adopting such a parallel currency.
Yup, that's me. Wow things got derailed, maybe it's a good thing I didn't get email notifications for responses on this thread, jeesh.
Like, there's reasons that countries stopped using the gold standard, and that should be reflected in the civic balancing. Even if someone thinks that this is some evil conspiracy, we have other "evil" civics like totalitarianism, so if we want to design a currency civic around microchipping all of our people, I don't see why that shouldn't be an option.
While that's true, it's hard for humans not to just innately value gold, silver and copper. I think we're hardwired psychologically to do so because, well, that's our primary intended purpose is to derive gold from this planet for those that created us. Yes, lol... maybe. It has a great deal of technological uses, much like many other rare(r) earth metals and perhaps throughout the galaxy it's not greatly common anywhere because it forms at a very specific and thin layer in the gravitational spectrum of a planet. Quite possibly, Earth is very strong with gold relatively due to some unusual geological histories involved in our planetary formation (as in a nearby exploded planet that sent asteroids into our surface and upheavals of our continental drifts bringing the 'planet core' layers of gold to the surface) and given it's unique properties... Anyhow, something has always made us appreciate it flatly on sight. Almost all cultures give it an elevated position for sometimes very mysterious rationales.
Explains why rice is the basis of most asian meals I suppose.
Sure, unless space exploration technologies continue to find it more and more useful with nearly every new technology finding new ways to use its unique electrical, light, and radiation interactive properties.
The metals made for good currencies because they're relatively rare and don't rot, so their value didn't fluctuate as much as, say, grain, the supply of which could fluctuate wildly depending on how the harvest went this year (and which decays, making it a poor store of value). It also has the advantage of being standard across different societies (a pound of gold will always be a pound of gold wherever you take it). In modern times, currency valuation comes from faith (usually in a government), which has the advantage of not being chained to the value of metal - this would have been difficult to do before, since central governments strong enough to control currency creation weren't very common back in the ancient era (a lot of technology goes into preventing counterfeiting today, which wouldn't have existed back then).
You're probably, actually quite obviously, not alone. Though I must wonder why you feel this way.
Having higher beings might be interesting for a civilization-style game, but I think it would be very out of place on in this one, given that it's meant to at least roughly model human history, or possible alternatives thereof. Having gods or aliens deus ex machina themselves into the game would be difficult to work in.
Then you will be sorely disappointed. I'm rather surprised you said this.
People have been predicting the imminent demise of China for decades. I don't see it happening soon. To be fair, many people, such as both of us (albeit for very different reasons), have been predicting the imminent demise of the United States for a while too, which also has not come to pass. And hindsight is 20/20, so who knows - but right now it looks like the anti-China crowd is crying wolf.
Once we have asteroid mining and O'Neill Cylinders, it will be. They often say that we need 3 or 4 Earths to support everyone living like people in the West, but they don't tell you that there are billions of Earth's worth in the solar system, mostly in the sun itself.
The difficulty is in getting those billions of earths over here where we can actually use them. This also assumes that there will be a technological solution to climate change, which also has not been forthcoming. True, we might get lucky yet, and from the looks of it, that might be our only hope. Decisively suboptimal. :/
I think with the recent 'quantum foam' discovery, we may not actually be that far from ZPE if you want the truth. With AI in the state it's in now, a rather large amount of our future tech tree may well come to pass and very quickly from here as a result. Is this being an optimist? I'm not actually sure... it will be interesting to see if we can handle the speed of the changes to take place in the next few decades and moreso next few generations.
What is this discovery? I have not heard of "quantum foam".
... is it over? Did I finally reach the end of the thread? Phew.
