Going for peaceful cult win, ending up in world war

[ImperialSteeze]

The same thing has happened to me three or so games in a row now. I'm trying to go for a peaceful culture victory but I end up in war with all the other major civs.


I'm playing as Ramesses(I know he might not be the best choice for a culture victory, but I love building powerful wonders), immortal difficulty, small pangea map with five AIs.
I start at a great location, river, hills, lots of wheat, incense, shielded on one side by a long mountain range etc.
The first other civ I discover is... Alexander, giddyup!
Since I know I'm gonna have to go to war with him anyway, I found my second city in the best location even though its very close to him.
Alex has denounced pretty much everyone else, they have denounced him, and when I see that he's about to attack my second city, I denounce him.
I fend him off and then capture Athens.
The other leaders are all friendly to me and OFC they like that we've denounced the same leaders.

My and Alex territory is shielded from the other civs by mountains almost all around. I want all that territory but my GPT has gone negative. So when Alex offers me massive GPT, gold and his next largest city I accept. I figure I can always take his other cities later.
I get my GPT positive and when the PT expires I take his other cities. I raze the useless ones and keep the ones in strategically good locations. I want all the territory within the mountain "shield".
Other civs are also at war with Alex but they don't accomplish much.

So, Alex is wiped off the map, I have a pretty good empire shielded from the others by mountains, good GPT, happiness etc. and I'm keeping up military wise by RAs.
So its all going well at this point, even though I don't get all the wonders I want but meh...
I've tried to pick the right leaders to be friends with. I've stepped on some toes but I can't keep up with who's friend with who and who's denounced who...
You should really be able to have a look at the diplomacy screen when someone asks for a DOF. It's like someone comes up to you in the street and says "wanna be friends!?" and you have to answer right away without thinking.

Then it happens... Persia denounces me, and goes from wanting friendly relations/being mad because I'm friend with one of their enemies, to having ten reasons to hate me.
Some rounds later he declares war and I have to spend pretty much all my attention and resources/production on defending Athens.
I manage, barely. Persia is the strongest civ in this game.
The other civs denounce me and now I'm a warmonger and whatnot.
WTF, the only civ I've denounced or declared war on is Alex, which they all hated.
I haven't gotten a single "you're too close" or "your army is too weak" the whole game.
I've turned down all, "wanna go to war with X?".
Yet, I am now the common enemy of all other civs.
Neb, declares war on me as well and I can't defend on two fronts.

GG... NOT!

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. It seems like the other civs always find a reason to want to kill me.
And when I do manage to win, its always really late game. A lot of times I have to focus my whole empire on GPT to be able to buy off just enough CSs to keep someone from winning by "diplomacy" before I can win by culture or science.
I don't know how am I'm supposed to win any earlier than round 300 something.
Maybe I should play on continents? But that seems boring.

Any help and tips are welcome!

 

[Thry]

You killed Alexander. Killing another civ causes a huge diplo loss, causing chain DOWs

 

[ImperialSteeze]

So leaving Alex a city in some corner or letting someone else finish him will prevent mass denouncing from the others later on?

 

[Kerosene31]

-Don't take out other civs

-Always have a powerful military even if you aren't going to use it. If the AI sees you as not having a big army, they will attack you. Keep an eye on your military advisor. If your army falls behind a nearby (or sometimes distant) civ, they will attack you.

 

[BobDole]

So leaving Alex a city in some corner or letting someone else finish him will prevent mass denouncing from the others later on?

Yeah, unless you're out to warmonger and kill everyone anyway, it's not really worth wiping someone out. Even if they were evil incarnate, or even if they started the war and you simply finished it, everyone declares you a warmongerming menace to the world. Appropriate in some situations, but not in all, but the AI doesn't get that, so just try to not deliver the final deathblow and don't get too crazy in conquering.

 

[SRG]

I fend him off and then capture Athens.

Here is strike 1. You took an enemy capital. To the computer, this looks like you are pursuing a Domination victory.

My and Alex territory is shielded from the other civs by mountains almost all around. I want all that territory but my GPT has gone negative. So when Alex offers me massive GPT, gold and his next largest city I accept. I figure I can always take his other cities later.

When a Civ capitulates (gives you a huge amount of stuff for peace), you need to consider it carefully.

I get my GPT positive and when the PT expires I take his other cities. I raze the useless ones and keep the ones in strategically good locations. I want all the territory within the mountain "shield".

Strike 2. You accepted his peace deal, and then attacked him. More even than that, you razed cities, kept expanding, and conquered an entire section of a map. Enough land for 2 civs. The computer now knows you are definitely aiming at some sort of an aggressive victory. The computer also knows you are a backstabber.

You have now been labeled as a Backstabbing Warmonger.

I've stepped on some toes but I can't keep up with who's friend with who and who's denounced who...

With the start you had, if you want to turn this into a peaceful game... you are going to need to be ON TOP of the diplomatic landscape. Stepping on toes as a Backstabbing Warmonger is a surefire way to get nuked.

Yet, I am now the common enemy of all other civs.
Neb, declares war on me as well and I can't defend on two fronts.

Seems pretty practical to me.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. It seems like the other civs always find a reason to want to kill me.

Any help and tips are welcome!

Quit giving them reasons!

 

[ImperialSteeze]

I see... Thanks for the advice. I just finished my next game game, cultural victory, Ramesses again, round 300 something, 2 cities, most boring game ever.
For the second half of the game I just sat in strategic view, pressing enter. I see now why there are people complaining about cultural victories being total bores.

 

[Randall Turner]

Yeah, Imperial, though you say you're going for a peaceful culture victory, you're not really playing it that way. (Which is fine, of course, but if that's what you really want...)

 

[ImperialSteeze]

Well, I always try to play the game peacefully(if I'm not going for domination OFC). But I find it hard when I'm right next to Alex.

 

[SRG]

I see... Thanks for the advice. I just finished my next game game, cultural victory, Ramesses again, round 300 something, 2 cities, most boring game ever.
For the second half of the game I just sat in strategic view, pressing enter. I see now why there are people complaining about cultural victories being total bores.

Up the difficulty level and do it again.

Usually in my Culture/Science games the early game is an absolute blast.

The middle game is really me focusing on building my infrastructure for winning.

The endgame is a little dull (I think they will work on it), but with the difficulty level up high enough the AI should at least invade and give you a few defensive wars to fight.



And nothing says cultural victory needs to be peaceful. Go the peaceful route for the first hundred or two turns, and then start a war so you can leverage your strong production against acquiring puppet states... they will add to your culture and gold, and take away from your happiness (which youll have a butt load of). In addition, as long as you do not annex them your social policy cost wont go nuts.

 

[Aristos]

threat detected by Avast in OP's image... strange.

 

[The_J]

Seems to be a missidentifaction, just checked it with virustotal and there's no real problem (click). -> No problem here, enjoy the thread please
(but thanks for reporting ).

At topic: Hey, there's Monty, what do you expect else ?

 

[Drawmeus]

A rather specific tip for dealing with Alexander - figure out who else he doesn't like, bribe him to fight them. If you can, bribe a third civ to DoW Alexander. Keep a decent military.

You should be able to keep him fighting others until he eventually gets swarmed under, preferably a coalition of civs which all like you (to prevent some other civ gaining too much steam).

 

[crashcrush]

"You should really be able to have a look at the diplomacy screen when someone asks for a DOF. It's like someone comes up to you in the street and says "wanna be friends!?" and you have to answer right away without thinking."

The InfoAddict mod allows you to do exactly this. You can click it from the diplomacy screen and get a CivIV style view with all the who's at war with who, and declared friendship with, and all the other information you're looking for.

 

[brasaelal]

In my current game with Arabia I invaded a city-state for its luxury and strategic resources and watched all AI's getting really mad with me! I was going for Diplomatic Victory, but now it's only possible if I earn enough money to make alliances with all city-states.

 

[Itstoearly]

Question regarding the negative impact of killing a Civ... last night I played a continents map where it was me and one other civ on the continent, and I wiped him out pretty early. If you kill a civ before either of you meet any other civ, do the other civs still know you've killed someone off?

 

[VirginiaRounder]

You can be completely peaceful and non-expansive the whole entire game and everyone loves you, but when you start getting dangerously close to being able to do the Utopia Project they can tell and won't like you any longer.

 

[gaiko]

As already detailed, the OP basically went off his culture victory strategy. Once Alex was crushed, the OP had recommited to a domination strategy, especially by razing, taking the capital and then wiping Alex out.

I find sticking to 3 cities and aiming for all the defensive wonders (esp. Kremlin), plus Oligarchy and other defensive SPs, plus refusing all entangling relations (don't befriend anyone, ever), is the best policy.

 

[SRG]

As already detailed, the OP basically went off his culture victory strategy. Once Alex was crushed, the OP had recommited to a domination strategy, especially by razing, taking the capital and then wiping Alex out.

I find sticking to 3 cities and aiming for all the defensive wonders (esp. Kremlin), plus Oligarchy and other defensive SPs, plus refusing all entangling relations (don't befriend anyone, ever), is the best policy.

I agree with this.

If I carefully choose my CS (make sure they aren't allied), never declare DoF, and never declare war I can stay Friendly with everyone right up until I start the Utopia Project.

And if one of them wants to attack me, like gaiko says here all of the defensive buildings and wonders + an artillery piece in each city means they will never take my cities.

 

[Samuil]

just one thing: the AI, like you, is playing to win... Once they notice you are a number of turns to victory, they will naturally unleash hell on you (they nuked my 5 city island multiple times, luckily they could not reach my capitol where I constructed the Utopia project)...
It is natural... you want the AI to let you win without a fight? Where is the fun in that?