How good players think differently from new players

[consentient]

So what y'all are saying is, I made my friend spend money on this game for nothing because we can't MP properly

If you just play with your friend the game should work fine.

If you play your friend over LAN, you will have zero problems. If you play over IP, then prepare yourself for a world of pain, unless you are lucky.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Steam... I'm guessing out of luck then

 

[LordBalkoth]

So what y'all are saying is, I made my friend spend money on this game for nothing because we can't MP properly

I'm pretty much only playing MP with several friends (have several MP games running with different people). There's sometimes a resynch every few hours, worst case -- the largest issue we've found is that sometimes when you load a game it'll skip your turn and the AI will go twice in a row. But if you just make sure you save in a situation where that doesn't hurt you (production/growth/etc all happen, it just acts like you told your units to do nothing) then it's hardly the end of the world.

If you play over IP, then prepare yourself for a world of pain, unless you are lucky.

I guess every single person I know who owns Civ 5 (looks like nine other people I've done MP with) has been lucky along with myself?

I mean, I'm not saying you're lying about having major problems yourself, I'm just saying I'm doubting how widespread the problem is.

 

[Tabarnak]

I found that a mix of European and American players(or any combination of continents) can affect game stability. Some players are counsidered as ""good host''.

A mp game is like an assembly line. The slowest comp/internet connection and/or highest distance will dictate the pace of a game. If some guys aren't enough over par then multiple resynchs can affect the game.

I played some really nice games where time between turns were litterally less longer than any sp games you may play. When everyone get perfect conditions the game will just run smooth and fine.

 

[consentient]

I'm just saying I'm doubting how widespread the problem is.

Doubt all you like. If I were at liberty to, I'd forward you the email I had from 2K's legal department where they admit they know how widespread it is.

I'm very happy for you and your chums, but it's a very small sample set.

Frankly I don't care what you believe, it's absolutely of no importance to the facts of the case.

When (not if) I win, then I'll let you all know the full details, as they will no longer be of any import.

@Tabarnak: It's nothing to do with where the players are located. The coding of the software for the P2P part of the game is shot to sh*t, plain and simple.

Numerous 'patches' have failed to solve the issue.

 

[CraigMak]

I myself do not believe that more than 50% of people are unable to play MP. Every single person that I know who has purchased and installed the game is able to play MP. Now, how many games have come to a full completion without crashing or freezing is quite another issue.

Honestly I probably fully complete 1 in 30 games. A large part of this is due to the game freezing up after some one leaves. Also, if I ever become host the game locks up immediately. My understanding is that this is caused by AI movements. When I host games without CS, barbs or AI's it functions flawlessly.

Why it's like this for me I don't know. My machine is vastly better than the recommended specs. This is definitely a bug but it can be circumvented by not hosting. BNW caused the bug because I hosted every game I played up until BNW.

 

[Acken]

Described like this, it sounds rather broken to me. My experience with MP wasn't that great either

 

[consentient]

Every single person that I know who has purchased and installed the game is able to play MP. Now, how many games have come to a full completion without crashing or freezing is quite another issue.

Honestly I probably fully complete 1 in 30 games.

Clearly, I have never meant that it doesn't work at all, as in you click the entry on the Main Menu and nothing happens. I mean exactly what you said...games don't complete. This is not acceptable for a major game. Especially not when the developers know about it and are refusing to spend their time and energy correcting it.

No other MP game I've ever played is as riddled with problems.

The furthest I got was T180 or so after like 2.5 hours, but then the same crap happened, AGAIN. After that, I started the proceedings against them.

How you can say that something works "fine" and then confess that 1 in 30 completes, is beyond me. You're like the manufacturers of aspirin who somehow convinced the FDA that because 1 in 30 trials showed reduction of pain, that your medication is effective. P

 

[Strickl3r]

You're like the manufacturers of aspirin who somehow convinced the FDA that because 1 in 30 trials showed reduction of pain, that your medication is effective. P

Don't mess with ''Bayer'' they can convince anyone about anything whenever they please to do so

 

[LordBalkoth]

The furthest I got was T180 or so after like 2.5 hours, but then the same crap happened, AGAIN.

Let's clarify what we're discussing:

1, what's the set up here? 1v1 human? 2 Hu vs 2 AI vs 2 AI? 8 Hu FFA?

2, what happened after turn 180? The game completely crashed? And wrecked the last autosave or something to the point that you couldn't load it back up?

Clearly this is not privileged legal information from Firaxis or something, just you describing what you see as the problem.

I mean, maybe a FFA 8 Hu game crashes every second turn -- I've never done a game that large with all humans. So knowing what we should AVOID doing to avoid crashing or whatever would also be nice to know.

 

[consentient]

The details of the crashes I can freely discuss. I just can't tell you what they have told me in emails, not at this stage.

Basically, a very large number of people experience a crash whereby the P2P system disconnects all players simultaneously, and then tells both of them that the other has disconnected and they are still connected. This is on 1v1 human, or any game with AI, so it makes no difference. I've never even tested games with more than 2 humans.

So after 180 turns, we both received a message saying "You are the only human left in the game". Clearly nonsense. And this disconnect happens every time. EVERY time. To fully test it, we played every day nearly all day for about a week, troubleshooting every possible fault, and doing endless research.

The fault happens to a majority of players regardless of whether they play over ethernet, wireless, VPN, etc. Computer specs have no apparent effect.

And this is all because of bugs in the P2P software, which, as I said, they are aware of.

 

[CraigMak]

Clearly, I have never meant that it doesn't work at all, as in you click the entry on the Main Menu and nothing happens. I mean exactly what you said...games don't complete. This is not acceptable for a major game. Especially not when the developers know about it and are refusing to spend their time and energy correcting it.

No other MP game I've ever played is as riddled with problems.

The furthest I got was T180 or so after like 2.5 hours, but then the same crap happened, AGAIN. After that, I started the proceedings against them.

How you can say that something works "fine" and then confess that 1 in 30 completes, is beyond me. You're like the manufacturers of aspirin who somehow convinced the FDA that because 1 in 30 trials showed reduction of pain, that your medication is effective. P

Well, most games work for as long as they need to work. I say 1 in 30 because games often come to an early end due to leavers making it boring. If it crashes due to a leaver it can still be reloaded but the fact that multiple people have left makes the game pretty pointless at that point.

The biggest failing is when the host leaves. That very often completely screws the game.

If you could weed out all the leaver scumbags then you would solve the problem which is why NQ has such a big following.

 

[consentient]

It doesn't solve the problem for all people. My test games were with my friend as the only other human. We tried dozens of games. Eventually, they all crashed due to crappy software.

The way we were able to ascertain that it was the P2P code and not anything else is that LAN games worked no problem at all, but sadly we are not housemates

 

[LordBalkoth]

So after 180 turns, we both received a message saying "You are the only human left in the game". Clearly nonsense. And this disconnect happens every time. EVERY time.

I seem to recall that happening a few times but it doesn't actually change what happens in the game if I remember correctly? Just falsely claims it.

What are the actual effects in your game besides the message?

 

[consentient]

No, the game is over. The AI takes over each player, from the perspective of each other player. The connection is broken.

 

[LordBalkoth]

No, the game is over. The AI takes over each player, from the perspective of each other player. The connection is broken.

I see what you're saying. I read "they are still connected" as meaning the two players WERE still connected despite the system saying otherwise.

I'm not saying that's not annoying, but why are you so up in arms about it given that you can simply reload the game (that's a serious question, not trying to be dismissive)? If anything I would think this bug would be more problematic because it prevents accurate reloading: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=540209

 

[consentient]

Reloading doesn't work, trust me, we've tried everything.

 

[LordBalkoth]

Reloading caused the game to disconnect on the same turn? Or do you just mean it would disconnect 180 turns from reloading again?

 

[consentient]

Reloading does not reconnect the players. They are totally disconnected in the lobby system.

 

[Carl5872]

So as a new player that wants to be a good player can you delve into the specifics of the early production over growth.

Ill tell you what I usually do and you please fix it. I first build every resource improvement I have researched. I then will add farms on grassland tiles, then to plains tiles (or flood plains if I have them). Next is mines.

So should I now start with all resource tiles, then build mines to the extent I am barely growing and build farms when growth would be entirely halted?