I Am Totally Confused

Build a land caravan early. Click on its uppermost icon to the left of the screen. Tell it to trade with nearest CS or the highest pay where you can secure the route from barbs.

Opening Honor is helpfull for caravans as you know when there are barbs abound.
 
Okay--I am totally frustrated now. I *thought* the AI now settled less cities due to gold problem. I am on turn 85 and Siam has just settled his THIRD city!

I am so busy fighting a barb camp that has two archers, one spearman, and one warrior. I built Great Library and National College, and my gold sucks so bad, I can't afford to settle a second city.

But Siam can settle a third? On turn 85?

I know I've read there that the AI doesn't spam cities like it used to in Gods & Kings, but apparently that's not true. And I'm on prince level.

NOTE: I rage quit because I saw no point in continuing.

As an aside--I played decent on prince in G&K. I'm wondering if I should drop down to warlord for now to get the basics down so far as BNW?

Thanks for any advice :)
 

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Don't forget if a barbarian raids your caravan it disappears forever and a new barbarian pops up.
Can't believe I just lost a game to barbarians. For realz that's frustrating but really neat at the same time.

The thing about BNW is that it changes the meta completely whereas GK just gave you a few more point systems to play with.
BNW has a lot of new mechanics that mess with other mechanics.
 
Hi there,

Although i also love building tall too, maybe you are building to many buildings/ wonders early on?

With 1 (or 2) units you will be able to kill off all close by camps. Let them come to you and bombard with your city.

What you could try, is play around with the policies. take the first one in tradition and then one in honour for your barbs. This should boost culture nicely and thus getting the second one in tradition. either the free monuments (dont build one if you do. it is a waste of hammers). you can build warriors or settlers instead.
also, for your happiness, go down the tradition path to the logo with the crown and in the honour tree try to get that free happiness from the defensive builidings.
 
^^It's only turn 85. Only wonder is Great Library. I went tradition and didn't build monument, and let Tradition take care of that.

My problem is that Siam built THREE cities by turn 85. Supposedly, that's not supposed to happen anymore.

Don't get me going on the barb camps spawning two or three horsemen who suddenly attack from nowhere and pillage and rape my resources.
 
I can't believe that #&*!@$! Korea just settled a second city on turn 22 right in my face!

I had Egypt doing just that: put a city so close to my capital. Trade bait?
 
Well, to start, I'd recommend not playing as Venice as that is a civ with its own steep learning curve (at least until you are familiar with the new mechanics).

For example, Siam dropping cities next to you is actually a perfect scenario for Venice, he's providing nearby puppets (when you get your military up) for you as you cannot use settlers. Just build up a nice ranged force and get ready to steamroll him with CB's. Also, Venice's UA is the ability to have twice as many trade routes, you have 0/4 trade routes being used. Build caravans (they are a unit) to take advantage of that. Once you have them going the gold will flow in very fast, and with the cities so close by, you won't have to worry so much about barbs interrupting the routes. In your screenshot it looks like you are trying to build the terracotta army, with only 4 gpt currently...that number is going to get very negative once your force is doubled on the spot. Stop building it, build caravans.

One thing to be aware of, the AI has difficulty with gold in the beginning as well, so their military forces are very slow to rebuild once you wipe out the first wave.

Overall, just be patient, especially on Prince, a slow start is definitely not the end of the world.
 
Of course you can't settle a 2nd city. You are Venice, remember. ;)

Also as the above poster mentioned, stay away from Venice till you get a good grasp on BNW, it is significantly different from rest of the civ roaster. And it would be much helpful if you share your current save file so we can judge the problems & give you appropriate suggestions. :)
 
Do what I did, set the NumCitiesTechCostMod to 25% instead of 5%. Siam won't have a big tech advantage then :)
 
I so far am having great fun with BNW, Culture win with Morocco on King to get used to the mechanics. Lost with Venice on Emperor, going the warmonger route can be difficult if you don't plan it out accordingly. Than just won a standard tiny island Emperor game with Indonesia which was loads of fun to play. Granted my 6 kris upgrades were 2 50% flank, 2 50/20 att/def, 1 +1 movement/blitz and the great general one so I bee lined into upgrading them into long swordsman and steamrolled to quite possibly my easiest/quickest win in a long time. I think they might be terror in MP if the RNG favors you, the +1 movement/blitz is nuts for pillaging(even moreso when you get blitz itself) as you can take out a unit on a resource than heal by pillaging and honestly the flank upgrade is much better than the 50/20. I am loving the depth and strategy required for gold now and this is what CiV was meant to be. Just like people forgot how awful cIV Vanilla was when comparing BtS to Vanilla CiV it took expansions to make cIV into what we loved and I can say with confidence now that BNW is the best civ to date even though 2 will always be my fav for nostalgic reasons.
 
Docbud, I have a few years on you, although Gunnergoz has me beaten. Between us I am sure we will be able to work it all out.

I'm enjoying learning all the new aspects. Of course, that may all change when Morocco decide they want my cities!
 
Thanks, everyone. And you're right--Venice may be over my head.

I'd provide a save file, Babri--but I'm going to try a civ I'm more comfortable with. However, I will keep those old save files on my hard drive for when I play them again.

@Cicerosaurus--thanks :). I'm sure we will get it worked out.

@Belzek: Thanks for explaining about Venice. I was just experimenting with various civs, and tried that one. It is definitely an interesting civilization.

@rp03ev: You have a nice day as well...
Moderator Action: Please do not answer trolls, report them. Answering only feeds them and creates more problems.
 
I lurk alot and don't post much, but I just couldn't help myself this time. My friend and I have hit the same gold/happy wall and it has caused me to re-evaluate things. So I thought I'd share :)

One conclusion I've come to (and this may have been obvious to others) is that the early game has changed drastically due to expansion being tied to two factors now. Before, rate of expansion was all about happiness. You could increase your gold simply by planting a new city along a river or a decent coast and the number of cities you could throw down was limited by happiness.

By removing gold from coast and rivers it has added a second dimension to expansion. You can still throw down as many cities as you have happiness and not incur any gold loss, but now your development of those cities and the size of the army needed to protect them is tied to gold. You no longer get a free pass on the gold, it has to be thought out and managed.

That is the core idea that has been slapping me in the face when I tried to rush out and do what I've normally done.

The way I am currently tackling that is to play about a 100 turns and restart to keep trying different methods to see what is working best.

There appear to be two factors that greatly ease your difficulties. The first is being much more careful on your city placement. I used to build cities strategically to block other empires or hold important areas, or hell, just to make barbarians stay away from my higher developed cities. Now, my second and third cities are place with gold producing luxuries in mind even if I have to travel a little bit to get to it.

The second factor is of course the policies. Tradition has always been good for growing tall cities, but I've used it plenty of times for city spamming tactics. Now however I am finding that I rely on the Monarchy pick a lot and grow my starting city large even if I'm doing a spamming tactic.

I apologize if this sounds like I know what I'm doing, that's not the case, I'm just sharing what I've been thrashing around with in case it helps.

For the early game, I find getting a trade route up way more difficult than just building it and doing it. The reason of course is Gold. Unless you are lucky to have a trade opportunity close by you are going to have to protect it with stationed troops which cost money. You can NOT afford to build roads early on until your cities are big enough to offer income to offset it. That leaves you pulling money from luxuries.

My solution to help get a handle on this so I can learn more about the game is to Go with the Tradition tree and focus on building a large capital no matter what strategy you employ. You get a 1/2 off discount to unhappiness and a nice boost to gold and science. When you combine this with picking cities based off of nearby luxuries as a priority you can field an army and build some buildings in your cities without going into the poor house.

This I'm finding is buying me enough time to get to markets and properly establish a protected trade route or two.

If your problem is learning the early game like me, I highly suggest you try the Shoshone as your starting civ. They are masters of the early game and allow for a massive boost with every ruin you find. My choices were Culture for the first ruin, upgrade the pioneer to a Composite bowman with the second and then I focused on taking Faith whenever it became available and population for the starting city and then gold as the fall back.

In addition to that flexibility you get bonus defense for all troops in your territory and your starting cities have about double the starting culture squares allowing you to settle near luxuries and almost always have them in your border even if they are two or sometimes three hexes away.

I don't believe there is a more powerful early game civ than them and I feel it is the perfect civ to start learning with if you're finding the early game difficult due to this gold dynamic change like me.
 
I apologize if this sounds like I know what I'm doing, that's not the case, I'm just sharing what I've been thrashing around with in case it helps.

For the early game, I find getting a trade route up way more difficult than just building it and doing it. The reason of course is Gold. Unless you are lucky to have a trade opportunity close by you are going to have to protect it with stationed troops which cost money. You can NOT afford to build roads early on until your cities are big enough to offer income to offset it. That leaves you pulling money from luxuries.

I'm on my first game - Poland, continents, standard speed Prince level (normally play at King and above with G&K). I think I got very lucky, lots of nearby city states, gold has not been a problem at all. I was first to found a religion and choose Tithe and one of the happiness ones. Got a trade route up and running to nearest CS, (only needed one archer on a hill to cover the route). Now turn 181 and getting 71 Gold a turn - 4/5 trade routes online, science is bad (still haven't built NC!). This is with 5 cities and a standing army of about 20+

My solution to help get a handle on this so I can learn more about the game is to Go with the Tradition tree and focus on building a large capital no matter what strategy you employ. You get a 1/2 off discount to unhappiness and a nice boost to gold and science. When you combine this with picking cities based off of nearby luxuries as a priority you can field an army and build some buildings in your cities without going into the poor house.

I don't believe there is a more powerful early game civ than them and I feel it is the perfect civ to start learning with if you're finding the early game difficult due to this gold dynamic change like me.

Tradition seems to work well. Went tradition in my capital, settled on desert hill hoping to get Petra later. I didn't :( - was chasing too many other wonders and tech choices. Did however get TOA and Hanging Gardens, plus belief for 1 food from temples.... capital is now size 20, with 22+food per turn.
 
The fact that I always had negative finances meant I had to get my money from somewhere else, which meant a whole new task of spreading my religion everywhere to gain gold through initiation rights. Even then I never bought anything because my loss could range from -4 to -27 in a few turns. It didn't help every so often one of my trade routes got plundered.
 
OP - Did you play a lot of G&K?

I'm only about turn 100 in my first BNW game, and I'm not really having any problems on Prince. The strategy seems the same. Make sure you keep happiness just about positive. Make sure you have some GPT rolling in. Make sure to get other cities up and running early. My gpt is pretty poor right now (about 3) but I'm now building a caravan to get it rolling.

Venice was definitely a mistake. I'm taking Assyria for my first BNW game, and can't wait to get Siege Engines. I have 3 cities and am on par with others on my continent score wise. I have 2 archers (1 an upgrade scout) and a warrior which I'm using to destroy barbarian camps for extra gold. I have taken a few policies in Tradition, and am dipping into Liberty as normal, but notice that the Piety ones seem really good too.

I play on Large/Epic/Prince.

Cheers.
 
^^^I played quite a bit of G&K (right after it came out for the Mac).

I used to play on standard size/epic/prince, but went to standard speed lately.
 
Okay--I am totally frustrated now. I *thought* the AI now settled less cities due to gold problem. I am on turn 85 and Siam has just settled his THIRD city!

I am so busy fighting a barb camp that has two archers, one spearman, and one warrior. I built Great Library and National College, and my gold sucks so bad, I can't afford to settle a second city.

But Siam can settle a third? On turn 85?

I know I've read there that the AI doesn't spam cities like it used to in Gods & Kings, but apparently that's not true. And I'm on prince level.

NOTE: I rage quit because I saw no point in continuing.

As an aside--I played decent on prince in G&K. I'm wondering if I should drop down to warlord for now to get the basics down so far as BNW?

Thanks for any advice :)

If you have a save game of that game its a perfect setup for venice on lower levels, you have 2 CS right on your doorstep, and 3 cities from Siam. Venice is an ecnomic power that cant really expand as well as other civs early game, and also requires a different style of play.

From your screenshot, you should be building 4 caravans asap, ignoring everything else, since you will have plenty of troops. Run carvans to milan, wittenburg, and 2 siam cities. Keep your Archer & CB at home/ on trade routes to protect them, while sending your warrior out to explore, in future you really need to explore the map right from the start.

Finish the quests for the Citystates if they have any, and get them to like you. Once you get cash flow going, you can keep them allied by gifts. Rush Optics if you have not to get a GMOV, use it on a city state farther away from you, keep the ones close to you allied, to get bonuses, unless one is hostile then Annex it. At the same time build a trireme or two, after you get carvans up, and work as you can on wonders and or buildings. Most of the time i basically buy my city buildings with venice, the key is to get your gold income flowing, and trading with other civs generates science for you as well.

My typical venice start is Scout, Scout , Monument or Worker depending on taking tradition or liberty at the start. If i take tradition, i go worker, if i take liberty i go monument, while using the policies to get the opposing thing for free.
 
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