Immortal has become tougher.

[loki75]

Ok, played with the incas, it's still easy even on immortal.
Launched around 240 when others were barely reaching atomic.
Surprising was Dido dowing me from across the map.
Starting position, as per Inca standard, was inexpugnable: Large coast surrounded by mountains and City states, only two tiles to get in, plenty of hills, space for 3 cities! That accounted for the easyness, I guess. 2 of my cities reached 30+, the other two were 25+.

 

[Cromagnus]

Ok, played with the incas, it's still easy even on immortal.
Launched around 240 when others were barely reaching atomic.
Surprising was Dido dowing me from across the map.
Starting position, as per Inca standard, was inexpugnable: Large coast surrounded by mountains and City states, only two tiles to get in, plenty of hills, space for 3 cities! That accounted for the easyness, I guess. 2 of my cities reached 30+, the other two were 25+.

Yeah, I think certain civs are set up to handle the changes better. Also, certain playstyles are set up to handle it better. I've only played one immortal game since the patch, ICS Domination w/ Catherine, and it was pretty easy. On the other hand, I've been playing w/ Suleiman on Deity and struggling a bit. The AI is much more aggressive at expanding over the ocean than it used to be.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

Having started quite a few games on immortal, well for those saying it is still easy... All I have to say is that you have not played very many games. Yep, sometimes it feels quite the same as before pre-patch, but for the majority of games it is much more difficult.

 

[RedRover57]

Emperor is as easy as ever after playing a few games with different strategies, so I guess it's time to try Immortal again. I'm wondering if barbarians are a main cause of the seemingly large gap between Emperor and Immortal now. The barbs are more aggressive (particularly since they can move right away after spawning and can heal by pillaging) and I'm wondering if the AI is just having a difficult time handling them on Emperor and lower difficulties. If the barbs capture an AI settler or worker this seems to stunt their growth for a long time. On Immortal and Deity they have enough units to take care of them. Maybe playing Emperor without barbarians would make for a more intermediate game?

 

[Chee]

Just destroyed my first Emperor game post patch (as I was doing pre-patch). I guess it means I need to move up to Immortal.

The recent game of the month was my first real attempt and it was tough going. I built the UN, but didn't quite get enough votes first time round. Just before the second vote, Alex completed the space ship.

 

[chazzycat]

well my 2nd game was definitely harder than my first, and I lost. I definitely made some mistakes, it was a winnable game. but as it went, China finished their spaceship around turn 280, and I was still around 10 turns out. I think that's the fastest I've seen on immortal...it used to be turn 300-310 was pretty safe.

i think the biggest change is the AI just seems to be spending more of their gold.

 

[Cromagnus]

An AI spending all their gold to produce junk units not only hurts their gold/turn, but isn't necessarily effective, and unit carpets only make it harder for the AI to decide what each unit should do.

That being said, there are certain Civs that greatly benefit from this tactic. Montezuma comes to mind, or anyone with a UU that can be produced right out of the starting gate. A carpet of warriors isn't very effective against a properly-defended city though.

Ultimately, this hurts players most when they rush to NC or something else at the top of the tech tree, or if they're trying to get an early advantage by producing buildings instead of units.

Since the patch, I've only gotten overwhelmed once in the early game, and it was due to waiting too long to build archers. I've definitely had more trouble in the long run with runaway AI civs, mostly I think because of their tendency to eat City-States. But I think the AI is starving its gold/turn a bit since the patch, and I think this results in their units not getting promoted as soon as one would expect. Even when dead last in tech I seem to get attacked by inferior units.

Overall I would say Immortal/Deity are definitely harder since the patch, which is unfortunate, since I already thought the jump from Emperor to Immortal was too large. But, I don't think it's immensely harder. It's more like... sometimes you get pwned, and sometimes you don't.

 

[Chee]

Enjoying my Immortal game so far (150 turns played) as Greece. Standard speed, standard size, continents. I went for 4 cities tradition opening and got an early religion thanks to nearby faith wonder (bought settler so I could work it asap - also happened to be next to a mountain and a lux).

I have Gandhi and Elizabeth to my south and Pachacuti to my west. To my north are 3 city states (2 allied) and to my east is coast.

My capital is surrounded by desert so decided to rush Petra - totally worthwhile.

Wanted Tithe and Holy Warriors for religion and got both as I was second to found.

All of a sudden, Pachacuti DOW'd me and surrounded my west most city with 6 Composite Bowmen, 2 catapults and 2 warriors. I had an archer and a hoplite there already and rushed archers that were garrisoned in my other cities to the battle.

Luckily for me, I quickly took out his melee units as he took my city health down completely in just a couple of turns. I rushed some more units with faith, upgraded my archers and succeeded in taking out all his forces before he could get any more melee units to the front line. He retreated and my city healed.

Just before the war, he has settled a really annoying little city to my north. I decided to take it and puppet it. It had 2 additional luxes (that I already had) and more horses. Thanks Pachacuti!

We made peace and became friends after that whilst he started to fight with Elizabeth instead.

I have good amounts of gold coming in and am working on the Patronage tree. I think I will go for a Diplomatic Victory to make full use of Alex's UA.

I have just started to discover the other continent with a rush bought caravel. Happiness was an issue but my new trading partners have helped me solve that problem.

Just got to play nice now and ally all the City States towards the end.

Gandhi is top of the scoreboard and is wonder whoring away with his 3 cities. I sit somewhere in the middle.

Very fun game. Here's hoping for my first Immortal win!

 

[mabalogna]

I dont think its just immortal.

my comfort zone was king and i win 100% of the time, but out of the last 4 games i've put down i've lost 3 from the AI who is out teching me. I know i'm not that rusty because normally i can come back after a few months and still be able to handle a king game without sweating

 

[dexters]

It's pretty much accross the board in terms of difficulty.

Biggest difference is the AI will conquer much more readily. If they are in a good position, one AI on a continents game will invariably run away. Very Civ3/4 ish.

This will put the AI in a very good position to win by tech, especially with their selective unpuppeting of cities. GPT and Science income becomes insurmountable.

This also immediately cuts down the amount of RA partners a human player can have Either because they've been eliminated or reduced into a small rump-state that won't have the GPT for RA.

I still haven't played Pangea games post patc, but I assume it will be somewhat easier if the human players can be involved in the politics sooner. Much harder to be involved in politics in continents games early on.

That said, I am now wondering how viable OCC games are if Civs are getting knocked off much easier.

 

[Chee]

I won my Immortal game with Alex via diplomacy on t277. My first win at Immortal. It was REALLY tough going!

Pachacuti declared on me with about 12 turns to go and showed up with no less than 30 artillery, a load of infantry and cavalry. Somehow I managed to fend him off and hold my city. Good old Great War Bombers. As long as I kept the melee units at bay, he couldn't take the city...

 

[Buccaneer]

Playing the last two games on Immortal (both post-patch), I am finding that I am doing much better than previous Immortal games. It was the 4-city Tradition strategy that gave me the missing piece (thanks Tab!) - both times easily raking in the beakers and gold. While I always won on Emperor but only half the time on Immortal, I found that I tend to start too slow (but do finish well). Now I start strong no matter what victory I am aiming for and ready for Deity domination gameplay (eventually leading up to other victories on Deity).

 

[ahawk]

Emperor post-patch has been hit or miss. I've seen AI's with 2000 gold at turn 50 (and it wasn't Spain), and I've seen multiple AI's with no gold whatsoever at turn 100 (a relative rarity, before the patch).

I have been reluctant to even try Immortal, now. Pre-patch, I only won a small percentage of the time, maybe only 30%, but could knock through Emperor and win most games if I kept to a known strategy. But now, Emperor games are even more of a challenge, usually because I can't trade luxuries for quite as much money as I think I used to. And if Emperor games are a tad harder, I'd rather not even bother going back to Immortal right away.

I agree with Buccaneer that 4-city is even more the way to go, now that rush-buying can't bring up quite so many cities to speed.

 

[stealth82]

Ok, played with the incas, it's still easy even on immortal.
Launched around 240 when others were barely reaching atomic.
Surprising was Dido dowing me from across the map.
Starting position, as per Inca standard, was inexpugnable: Large coast surrounded by mountains and City states, only two tiles to get in, plenty of hills, space for 3 cities! That accounted for the easyness, I guess. 2 of my cities reached 30+, the other two were 25+.

Those were favorable conditions, weren't they? How can you say the game is as easy as before by having played one game with the Inca from a secured and inaccessible area of the map with no one bothering you because they couldn't see your lands, let alone reach them? That doesn't seem to be a reliable reason to say the game is still easy.

It's pretty much accross the board in terms of difficulty.

Biggest difference is the AI will conquer much more readily. If they are in a good position, one AI on a continents game will invariably run away. Very Civ3/4 ish.

This will put the AI in a very good position to win by tech, especially with their selective unpuppeting of cities. GPT and Science income becomes insurmountable.

This also immediately cuts down the amount of RA partners a human player can have Either because they've been eliminated or reduced into a small rump-state that won't have the GPT for RA.

I still haven't played Pangea games post patc, but I assume it will be somewhat easier if the human players can be involved in the politics sooner. Much harder to be involved in politics in continents games early on.

That said, I am now wondering how viable OCC games are if Civs are getting knocked off much easier.

I quote every words. It's just what has happened to me in different circumstances, both Pangea and Continents.

The only way to win games at Immortal for me has become warmongering. If you wage war having that in mind from the start and take off your opponents the game is manageable. It's also the only true deterrent for runwaway civs.

 

[Chee]

Well, I got absolutely destroyed in my next Immortal game....

 

[loki75]

Those were favorable conditions, weren't they? How can you say the game is as easy as before by having played one game with the Inca from a secured and inaccessible area of the map with no one bothering you because they couldn't see your lands, let alone reach them? That doesn't seem to be a reliable reason to say the game is still easy.

Yes, I wrote it was an easy position. I have played more games on immortal with the incas, and I was able to achieve victory in less favorable conditions.
Deity was a loss though, less money means you stay behind for longer to a point where I wasn't able to catch up.
The trick with the incas is to time terrace farms without getting too far behind in tech. Once you have the terrace farms you will generate growth AND production, rapidly catching up when you hit education buying universities.
In my deity games, I didn't have enough money to buy libraries and universities. This delayed me too much and I had to quit when reaching industrial.

 

[budweiser]

I still haven't played Pangea games post patc, but I assume it will be somewhat easier if the human players can be involved in the politics sooner. Much harder to be involved in politics in continents games early on.

This is interesting. I am faced with a run away Immortal Japan on a pangea where I (0CC babylon) did quite a bit less AI interaction than I usually do. Could the human's lack of interaction somehow enable the AI to runaway?

 

[The Pilgrim]

This is interesting. I am faced with a run away Immortal Japan on a pangea where I (0CC babylon) did quite a bit less AI interaction than I usually do. Could the human's lack of interaction somehow enable the AI to runaway?

Forcing him to face multiple fronts earlier could have slowed him down. Maybe. The timing of these things is important, I think, and the luck factor is present as well. When there is a runaway already, wars will benefit him more than his rivals that will be crushed. Depends on their amount and total strength of course. But I feel the politics plays even bigger role now when all AI civs have enormous armies which have nothing better to do than stomping on something. If you pay close attention to political scene sometimes you can catch a moment just before the runaway becomes too powerful and bribe him/his enemies into a war that will trim him down.

 

[chazzycat]

Totally experienced this in my last game (Budweiser's OCC challenge)

France & Germany were the two early candidates for running away, based on score/demographics as I could see it. Germany was about 10 percent ahead in science and other factors were about the same, so I guessed Germany. I got France to DOW germany to slow them down. It worked.

But before long, France took out Arabia and the Celts and had become the obvious fruntrunner. By the time I put it together it was too late. I got all remaining major powers to DOW France, but it didn't matter. Napoleon crushed them all.

Not only is human interaction necessary, it has to be adaptable and accurate, with less than perfect information.

 

[Matthew.]

Just started playing since patch, but so far Emperor seems just as easy. I will play a couple of Immortal games this week, but the news of increased difficulty is exciting