Infinite City Sprawl 03 - Divine

[mystyfly]

Oracle in 3000BC possible but unlikely.

Usually the AI builds about hundred more scouts that die some years later and it starts the oracle (like any wonder) in the most hammer-poor site.

So no, I'm not worried

Hopefully, the marble-cluster algorithm keeps those in way off places, but I think you are still putting in too much faith in thinking by adding a no-industrious civ CHEAT, that things will be ok.

I think that helps a tiny bit only. It's like early religions: On deity, it's nearly as possible to found an early religion like on prince. If the AI decides to persue one, you lose. Marble doesn't make that much of a difference, or is at least countered by a chop or three. (Problem only is we don't have spare trees to chop).


BTW How come you are so interested in this game? Because of the diff level or the wonders we're using in our strat? (Just curious )

 

[obsolete]

Because I prefer to build as few cities as possible. This goes opposite of my normal games.

 

[Grey Fox]

Im following the game for the same reason.

 

[Rusten]

Hopefully, the marble-cluster algorithm keeps those in way off places, but I think you are still putting in too much faith in thinking by adding a no-industrious civ CHEAT, that things will be ok.

That's a little amusing coming from you. The game you're currently posting in strat&tips is played a second time and has an insanely good start as you're getting 4 gold mines with your first 3 cities (and food to work them). Knowing every AI and knowing that you'll get 4 gold mines early compared to avoiding industrious civs?

I wasn't going to mention it as people can do what they want on their own, but when you make a point out of it in someone else's thread it just appears as silly. Your choice there was much more of a cheat/advantage than adding in non-industrious AIs. If you're going to mention about favourable settings at least make sure your own games are fair already.

On topic; this will be a fun game to watch. I did a quick little shadow but won't say anything about how it's going so far.
Good luck!

 

[mystyfly]

Little overview, RE opening:

Option 1: Meditation > Priesthood)
Bad idea, no protection, no tile improvements, no writing. Any path without archery is out imo.

Option 2: Hunting > Archery > Meditation > Priesthood)
No tile improvements, defensive unit (archer), relative good chance of getting the Oracle. Still I don't like it as we can't improve anything but the two hills.

Option 3: Hunting > Archery > BW > Meditation > Priesthood
No good idea. The Oracle is up fastest this way but we have to delay finishing it until we get writing. The Oracle should be ready on turn 48, writing something like turn 52. Big disadvantage: We lose our rare forests.

Option 4: Hunting > AH > Archery > Meditation > Priesthood
We'll finish the Oracle on turn 52 while Writing will be done on turn 47. Here we'll have a Pasture (4/2/1 tile) and two hills. The worker will be sitting around for some time. But we're also protected and can build some Archers before the Oracle. This leaves protection and forests for lots of settlers.


I clearly prefer option 4. I don't think turn 52 is that far into the game and we'll surely be alive when we complete the oracle and in a position where we can settle many cities (hopefully).
Option 2 is quite save and still fast. I just don't like building a worker for two mines (and we need that worker or we won't have any production). Opinions??

 

[qwertz]

Wow, I 've been away for 1 day and this thread got 2 new pages


My thoughts on the start:
-I'm a big fan of plain hill starts, so I would settle 1SW. But settling in place doesn't sound that bad either.
-techwise I'd go agriculture-archery-priesthood, AH should also be a priority, but I'm not sure where to squeeze it in
-build order would be something like worker-warior-archer-more archers-oracle


on lbulbing:
Both theo and paper should be priorities in the game, our options here are:
1.Selfresearch theo-paper
2.Bulb theo with a GP, self research paper
3.Block philo and go CS-paper, research meditation, bulb theo (quite senseless IMO as CS is more expensive than paper)
4.research/bulb theo, bulb philo, bulb paper


I'm for the option 2 as the others a more detours than shortcuts. Also I have to disagree that the UoS is more important than AP. 2 can easily be converted in 2 if we are short on research. The other way round is a bit more difficult.



I don't get your xC schemes, but from my understanding of the whole system. There are 3 options for the position of an AI city:
-on our gird -> perfect, we have to build less settlers
-1 tile S, N, E or W from a planed gird city -> the city blocks 1 other gird city
-1 tile SE, SW, NE or NW from a planed gird city -> the city blocks 3 other cities

Now if it's just one city that doesn't fit in the gird, it's not that bad, but if we are generally allowed to keep AI cities that are S, N, E or W from wher they are supposed to be, it might in some cases be more efficient to make an own gird out from them. This would create a whole different girds system and would IMO cause too much mess. Now I have nothing against keeping some few key AI cities that don't fit in the gird, but I don't like a rule that allows us to generally keep not-gird AI cities.


That's it, I hope I didn't forget something .

 

[mystyfly]

-I'm a big fan of plain hill starts, so I would settle 1SW. But settling in place doesn't sound that bad either.
-techwise I'd go agriculture-archery-priesthood, AH should also be a priority, but I'm not sure where to squeeze it in

Thing is, we mustn't lose turns moving the settler.

Also, until the Oracle is in, the 3F tiles we have are way more than we need to grow to size 5. Agriculture is wasted research at this point. AH otoh gives us a very strong tile with much needed production and even lowers the cost of writing.

-on our gird -> perfect, we have to build less settlers
-1 tile S, N, E or W from a planed gird city -> the city blocks 1 other gird city
-1 tile SE, SW, NE or NW from a planed gird city -> the city blocks 3 other cities

That's it. I knew this could've been easier

 

[Snaaty]

Interesting idea, will be lurking

Some tips/opinion:


Getting wonders out AND settlers in time on deity is hard... ...really hard

Without ind civs, the Oracle normally gets build around 1800 BC

On deity, some AI´s (mainly the builders/religous freaks) start wonders in one of the two cities they start with pretty early

Watch out for the civs with cheap settlers/workers (Jao, Zara, Charl...) they tend to build 15-20 cities up to 1 AD when not stopped and are usually the most dangerous arround (you cant compare it to immortal, because with two cities their bonus on worker/settlers doulbe and they will have 5 cities before you get your 2nd out (even without wonders)

You need to change your rule and be allowed to build blocking cities... ...without blocking cities... ...hard, really hard, even without wonders

...

like said before, like the idea and will be lurking

 

[qwertz]

Thing is, we mustn't lose turns moving the settler.

Well the extra / pro turn will give us circa 50 additional until we build the oracle. Losing 1 turn will lose us 10 and 4. I think the bigger problem is that we lose 1 pre-BW minable hill by moving

Also, until the Oracle is in, the 3F tiles we have are way more than we need to grow to size 5. Agriculture is wasted research at this point. AH otoh gives us a very strong tile with much needed production and even lowers the cost of writing.

my bad, I forgot that AH is opened up by hunting too

 

[mystyfly]

You need to change your rule and be allowed to build blocking cities... ...without blocking cities... ...hard, really hard, even without wonders

You're right. But we'll see when we see where the AIs are and how much protection we have for our settlers. The further away the more archers needed.

Without ind civs, the Oracle normally gets build around 1800 BC

I usually play epic so I don't really know, but 52 turns on normal are about 2000BC?

Well the extra / pro turn will give us circa 50 additional until we build the oracle. Losing 1 turn will lose us 10 and 4. I think the bigger problem is that we lose 1 pre-BW minable hill by moving

We don't lose a hill at all. Much rather, we gain another forest. But what if we settle 1W? We keep the FPs and gain one more hill.

 

[obsolete]

Come on....

More Screenies...

 

[ssmage]

Hey, Mystyfly.
Play till we get the oracle.
Then we go by 20 to 1 AD then 10 to finish?

 

[mystyfly]

Hey, Mystyfly.
Play till we get the oracle.
Then we go by 20 to 1 AD then 10 to finish?

I can play until the oracle but we should decide where to settle. I somehow assumed we settled in place but 1w and 1sw are also an option. I personally don't like losing a turn by moving the settler.

After the first (long) set, everyone gets ~20 turns until we're once through the roster (and even out the turn number) but after the first round it's 10 turns each.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

I can see the logic for 1 SW for the Plains Hill hammer boost, but losing a turn of research by going 1W feels wrong.

On balance I think I would go 1SW but happy for it to be the Player's choice.

Ralph

 

[ssmage]

1 west looks good, as we gain first ring oasis for better teching, so i say 1 west.

but if we settle in place, we have 7 forests in the bfc, but if move 1 west, we have 5 forest by looking at the map.

 

[qwertz]

but losing a turn of research by going 1W feels wrong.

We don't loose a turn by going 1W the settler is 2 so we can move and still settle on turn 1.

As already said, I slightly prefer SW, but I think the other two options are quite nice too, so we can't do much wrong (yet).

 

[r_rolo1]

Settiling in place is fine by me...... not that the other options looks much better or worse.

 

[mystyfly]

1 west looks good, as we gain first ring oasis for better teching, so i say 1 west.

but if we settle in place, we have 7 forests in the bfc, but if move 1 west, we have 5 forest by looking at the map.

I looked a bit more closely (with and without Blue Marble as well as flying camera). As I see it, we have 5 forests when settling in place though I'm not so sure. 1W has 5 forests.

I'll not go 1SW and only rolo wants to settle in place (while I prefer 1W). So there is no consenus and I'll go 1W feel free to shoot me if I just ruined the game

Expect a report tomorrow morning.

 

[ZPV]

Option 4: Hunting > AH > Archery > Meditation > Priesthood
We'll finish the Oracle on turn 52 while Writing will be done on turn 47. Here we'll have a Pasture (4/2/1 tile) and two hills. The worker will be sitting around for some time. But we're also protected and can build some Archers before the Oracle. This leaves protection and forests for lots of settlers.

Following this path, with detailed micomanagement (basically max food and timing builds with research), I can get Oracle on the T49-50 inter-turn. (On a test map I made)

If we settle 1W, this becomes T48-49, and possible one more turn earlier if we get lucky and meet several AIs early.

OTOH, there is a mountain 4W3S, but I still think it is worth it to settle 1W

 

[mystyfly]

Following this path, with detailed micomanagement (basically max food and timing builds with research), I can get Oracle on the T49-50 inter-turn. (On a test map I made)

Strange. When I tested it, I maxed out food and started starving down (working max hammer tiles) until the oracle was in. I'm not perfect and can likely have made a mistake there though.

So 1W it is (definitely )