Is it cheating?

[iamliberal]

Ya, I don't reload stuff that happens that should happen. I don't reload when bad things happen during the ai's turn either. I've found over the years, I enjoy the game more this way.

One thing I wish I could do is examine the Domestic Advisor when the AI talks to me during their turn with demands.. like if Washington asks me to join him against Ragnar, why shouldn't I be able to check my Dom Adv to remind me who likes and dislikes Ragnar? I don't reload for these although it's tempting.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You can press F4 to do that...

 

[bestbrian]

Ya, I don't reload stuff that happens that should happen. I don't reload when bad things happen during the ai's turn either. I've found over the years, I enjoy the game more this way.

One thing I wish I could do is examine the Domestic Advisor when the AI talks to me during their turn with demands.. like if Washington asks me to join him against Ragnar, why shouldn't I be able to check my Dom Adv to remind me who likes and dislikes Ragnar? I don't reload for these although it's tempting.

Foreign Advisor button on the upper right of the screen is enabled when the AI petitions you for nonsense so that you can scout it out.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

The foreign advisor button doesn't work for me (on the PC anyway), but F4 does.

 

[iamliberal]

Hmmm, I'll have to test out f4 again, I probably haven't in years. I'm pretty sure it didn't used to work, but this is good news, now I can't wait to get a demand so I can test it

 

[Kranden]

I save about every 40 turns and if anything goes so horribly wrong that I'm going to lose the game I can reload (such as losing my entire army and having stacks and stacks of enemy units marching on my cities.) But I play on a hard difficulty where I only win about 65% of the games I play somtimes the AI can just gang up on you in Emp and tear you apart with 3x the men you have.

 

[CliftonBazaar]

I used to reload all the time when I was a warlord level player, but I couldn't win on any higher level no matter how many times I reloaded.

Then I got involved in the HOF which didn't allow reloads - now I'm a Prince level player with wins on Diety.

 

[Socratatus]

Hi everyone,

I've been playing Civilization since Civ 1 when I was in high school! I use a Mac, so I don't have BTS yet, so I still play Warlords.

I'm curious how others play? Here is what I do: if things like spies and missionaries fail, I tend to reload and not use them that turn and try them later. I always feel like the units are too valuable and too expensive to waste on failed runs, and I don't like chance (if I pay 5,000g to sabotage, it better be sabotaged). I know chance makes it more realistic, but meh whatever.

I tend to reload when military units fail too - I preserve random seed, and in my brain, this justifies it not as cheating (or at least, not as much like cheating). I might try reworking the order of attackers or something to try to get the best results with the same random seed. In the old days when random seed wasn't preserved, you could reload any number of times to get the resuls you wanted. So my technique doens't feel nearly as much like cheating. And it's not like I'm magically adding or deleting units like you could in Civ2 by entering "cheat mode."

I've always felt like this semi-cheating is my balance against the AI's actual cheating, but I'm just curious what others do? I've been doing it for so long, I can't imagine what it's like to watch a Musketeer die to a Warrior anymore! I've also disliked how I have to actively check the foreign advisor screen to see if anyone has any gold or resources to change again and again and again... I wish there was an alert or something that could spare me this tedious process. The AI, on the other hand, always knows exactly when resources available and so can beat me to trading for them.

My play-style would, of course, not work in multiplayer at all. So what do other people do?

Some people play their games in strange ways. If I played like that I`d throw the game in the bin! I really don`t get the logic.

I mean, what`s the point of making yourself win every time? Also what`s the point playing a game that`s based on reality if you don`t deal with the body blows like the real Leaders in reality had to?

For example, Chamberlain musta spent a lot of time in diplomacy with hitler hoping for a great result. In fact he thought he had such a wonderful Peace treaty that he flashed it all over the cameras. A few months later, hitler walks into Poland, forcing chamberlain into a war he didn`t want. Chamberlain sure wanted a good result, he didn`t get it. He couldn`t change it. He had to live with it and so did Britain.

For me the joy of playing world domination games like this is HOW you deal with setbacks and how you ultimately fight back.

I don`t see any point at all in playing it the way you do. It`s not leadership or management. Your game is always a foregone conclusion - You win, without any effort- ever.

Reloading, because you don`t like the fact that the enemy army beat your army is weak in personality imho. And blaming the AI is also weak. But every one to their own.

p.s. To answer your original question, I never reload unless the game crashes. i`ve had this game for ages and still haven`t properly won a game yet! But I won`t cheat since imho even by yourself, you cheat yourself out of thinking, strategising and learning to deal with failure.

 

[Bobulator]

It's an advantage over those who choose not to reload, to be sure, which is why it's frowned upon. That doesn't make it cheating, though. The option to save and reload were put into this game so a player could save/reload anytime they wanted to.

That said, however, your game will Definitely improve faster if you live and learn through your mistakes. Learning to adapt when something doesn't go your way is better than a reload. But play the game however you want .

 

[Endure]

It's an advantage over those who choose not to reload, to be sure, which is why it's frowned upon. That doesn't make it cheating, though. The option to save and reload were put into this game so a player could save/reload anytime they wanted to.

That said, however, your game will Definitely improve faster if you live and learn through your mistakes. Learning to adapt when something doesn't go your way is better than a reload. But play the game however you want .

Thats like saying using the world builder during your game isn't cheating because it's in the game, so a player can use it anytime they want to.

Saving/reloading because you didn't win a battle and/or take a city and repeating it until you win is certainly a form of cheating imho.

Now, saving a game, playing 50 turns, then going back to an old save and trying a different strategy isn't really cheating imho, so I guess it depends on how your using the save/load system. Abusing it is cheating imho, using it sparingly and to try different strategies isn't. (notably while learning the game.)

That said, I certainly agree that learning to play without abusing saving/reloading makes you a better player faster.

 

[Socratatus]

I have a friend who has a Playstation and cheats continuously on it. He`s been doing so for YEARS! It`s got to the point that he tells me he cheats because every game is too hard, or because the AI cheats, or because he doesn`t like losing. He sometimes lets me borrow a game and says to me `you can have my cheats since the game is so cheatingly hard`. I say no, I`ll try it the non-cheating way. I find these games quite easy to overcome and eventually win.

For example, Resident Evil 4. If I listened to my friend, there`s no way to beat the game, it`s too hard, but I just completed it (took me a month) with no cheats, just using tactics and learning and obviously reloading when I got killed. I hadn`t played a PS2 game in years so my control pad abilities were rubbish at first, but I LEARNED to use the control pad and got better too.

My friend even watched me play later and even saw stuff he never normally sees cos he cheats through it. Of course, he won`t admit he`s wrong, but he can`t tell me any more that all PS2 games need cheats to complete.

Cheating made him stop thinking how to solve puzzles, he`s not stupid, but his brain has grown lazy since it has never had to work to solve simple game problems, so everything is too hard for him.

But he won`t change now.

The perils of rampant cheating really are you just cheat yourself.

p.s. Resident evil 4 is a pretty good game by the way, for a console. I wouldn`t get it on the PC though.

 

[wannabewarlord]

interesting discussion. even more so the justifications some people give for their behavior.

I personally think to each his own. you bought the game (or "obtained" it in some other way) to enjoy it. if it's your thing to enter WB, to reload, to do whatever and you enjoy it, then it is ok I guess, since you're in single player. who knows, you might anger or hurt the PC/Mac's feelings and one day he'll retaliate by merging with skynet and wrecking your flat, but that's another story.

I understand the urge and the motivation to reload. Mind you I get pissed over a 80%+ loss as well, but 80% says 8 out of 10 times and not "pwnz0r!!11oneoneeleven" so I bite the bullet.

Also, I am too lazy to replay 50 turns I already did just because some campagin din't work out the way I wanted. If that happens and I see myself on the losing path, I accept defeat and quit the game to start an entirely new one. At the moment, I find the most enjoyment in the early stages anyhow.

I am not free of cheating or "tipping the odds in my favor" either. What I do sometimes, is regenerating the initial map or simply starting a new game before the first turn is over, if I don't like the opening. I am still learning city management and I'd like to help myself out with a favorable start for that. I hope I will at one point become skilled enough to handle any kind of start the game throws at me but for now I have to admit I am not.

cheers
-wannabewarlord

 

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Yeah, RE4 is an awesome game!

For me, reloading a save is a cheat. The game doesnt turn out the way you want it to, so you abide rules and redo what you have already tried once. For me its like using god-mode in a quake game or something - It makes you invincible (At least for battles).

I used to do it when I first got Civ4, but now I never do it.. It makes the game more realistic and more fun IMO. The game is about being awesome and winning

 

[Lord Meire]

cheaters never prosper, winners never cheat, quitters never win=
1) if you cheat all the time, you wont be ready for a real game.
2) if your not ready for a real game, you will lose.
3) if your not brave enough to win without cheating, you still lose.

 

[Dabur]

cheating ?

where , line them up , get ready , aim and


tsk , tsk

 

[Whoman69]

I'm not too concerned about what a missionary is doing to really feel bad if they fail. They cost little to build and their mission if failed is not going to thwart my entire plan. Spies are a bit more expensive, but in Civ IV they can scope out the entire enemy army and not get caught. Using them for sabotage is a risk that you don't need to take.
Resetting after a bad battle result doesn't really upset me, though with my slow load times I try not to do it. If you want realism, what chance does a Napoleanic rifleman have against a World War II era tank? How many platoons of World War II infantry could win the Revolutionary War? If I have whittled the enemy defenses down and have 98% odds against the enemy, something is wrong if I lose. My last game I lost three of those in one round. Realistically there should be an added element of impossibility for units of different historical eras. I shouldn't have a tank go against a rifleman and just barely come out with my life. The Russians didn't lose any significant number of troops to the Afghanis until the US started sending something more modern than WWI carbines to them.

 

[Balderstrom]

When I reload, its usually to go back about 500 years or so. Or start the game over completely. Saying you don't learn how to play from reloading whenever anything goes awry is possibly accurate. Going back hundred of years or more - I don't really consider in the same ballpark. I've learned a lot of different tactics from either restarting games or going back in time a significant amount - moreso than if I had just finished said game and started another... by the time I start another game I'll have a much clearer perspective on what my goals should be.

 

[G_Pat]

I mean, what`s the point of making yourself win every time? Also what`s the point playing a game that`s based on reality if you don`t deal with the body blows like the real Leaders in reality had to?

I know I'm new here and this game is a lot of things but based on reality isn't one of them. IMO

If it was America wouldn't be here at 4000 BC. Saladin and Churchill wouldn't be fighting against each other, it just couldn't happen.

I say if playing SP do whatever makes the game fun. Isn't that the point, to have fun? Granted you're not going to improve as fast but some just like to play for fun.

If MP then yes, it's cheating.

 

[Legba]

Yeah, I think it's totally cheating but who am I to tell someone how to play their games. I use to be a really bad reloader, though I don't normally cheat at other video games. I think it was a combination of not being that good at the game and the builder in me that didn't like to see his nice shiny cities fall. It got to the point where the game became very dull and I stopped playing. Now, that I've all but weaned myself off of it, the game is much more interesting.