[R&F] Is it worth building Temple of Artemis if you can?

[Sostratus]

Some Wonders always just feel more fun.

ToA is one of them

The true genius of the wonder. Many of the wonders with bonuses specifically based upon placement end up being really fun to play around with; you'll see a great spot for it and immediately try to think of a mini plan to capitalize on it. Weaves in well with district gameplay, and the series "one more turn" style.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

This wonder is hard to evaluate. With more than 8 resources, its effect is really strong. But it was unlocked during the first expansion of civilization, and then it clashed with two better wonders (Pyramids and Oracle), later it will soon be possible to build Colosseum. So I usually give up. But if it still exists after you finish Colosseum, it is worth building.
However, this wonder really works well in OCC.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

The Temple of Artemis is a great wonder. I don’t want to get into anybody else’s game too deeply as I don’t have the full data set, but take for instance the game playshogi is currently involved in (see image in spoiler).

Yesterday he mentioned in the Game of the Week Macedonian thread that his game wasn’t going all that well,
“My deity game so far hasn't been so rosy. Zulu attacked me right away, so I had to build warriors instead of builders. Turn 70 and only 2 cities, but I built encampments in both. Took peace "for now" (Shaka's words) with Zulu so I can concentrate on Kongo who has built 3 wonders in 3 different cities and is building Petra in a 4th. He's got his unique swordsman in the field, though. I can crank out 1 Hetairoi every 3 turns without chopping.”

He also mentioned that he built 2 encampment districts (I’m assuming both with Basilikoi Paides). I think that he *could* have built the ToA in one of those cities if there was a suitable location. This would have raised the population cap (+3 housing) as well as increased the growth rate (+4 food), allowing him to increase production by utilizing more hills for mining without placing citizens on non-productive farms. This could, perhaps, have allowed him to have the ToA, have extra amenities, and have a production capacity in the ToA augmented encampment city that is close enough to the production capacity of the 2 encampment districts to make it worthwhile. This would free the 2nd city to produce other specialty districts or units (builders). Going forward it would also save him production on redundant armories and military academies and some unknown quantity of science, culture, or gold from the district that was the 2nd encampment (which could add up over the course of the game to quite a substantial amount). Then there is the era score.

Also, as noted by other posters, amenities translate into indirectly into science plus culture and more directly into gold (from selling lux resources).

Obviously, building the 2 encampment districts and taking the wonder from Kongo turned out to be the right move. But the TofA ~can~ be worth it in the right situation.

Spoiler playshogi's image from earlier in thread :

Or on deity it could have been built out from under him, and he could be getting overrun instead of conquering Kongo. There is always that. The AI does love this wonder. Shrug.

 

[playshogi]

I usually never think about building wonders until I have at least 8 good cities established. After that, if ToA is available (which it sometimes is, even on deity) I will build it if I have a good spot for it. 10 amenities from an AI built ToA must be a record, though, as my previous best was 7.

 

[liv]

I think this will depend on what kind of victory you have in mind. If you go for domination then it is not the greatest wonder. The other early wonders are better (like the pyramid)

 

[kb27787]

Surely you don't mean it's better than Pyramids.

Better in terms of tech safety anyway... Masonry gives you nothing whereas archery gives you the unit that guarantee early game safety.
In terms of actual power pyras is better of course, but I would be very scared of building it straight unless I am China..

 

[Disgustipated]

I consider masonry pretty important. Ancient Walls give quite a bit of safety. 1 or 2 archers with walls can defend against a lot.

 

[Casualty of war]

ToA is pretty great for keeping your Scots Ecstatic. The food influx is pretty handy for getting a city to 10 population in time for the Inspiration and Era Score also. It is probably the best Wonder to try for to get your Drama & Poetry Inspiration when attempting a Culture Victory.

 

[acluewithout]

The true genius of the wonder. Many of the wonders with bonuses specifically based upon placement end up being really fun to play around with; you'll see a great spot for it and immediately try to think of a mini plan to capitalize on it. Weaves in well with district gameplay, and the series "one more turn" style.

I agree the placement wonders tend to be the most fun. Equally though, it’s a real buzz kill when the AI builds them in a stupid spot.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I consider masonry pretty important. Ancient Walls give quite a bit of safety. 1 or 2 archers with walls can defend against a lot.

Well the thing is archery has an immediate effect when you can upgrade slingers into archers while walls have to be built and don't have a good attack until you get an archer since bombard strength is based off archer strength.

But..... I often get Masonry often first anyways since I am often still building the slingers in question. Going straight for archery is often bad because you can get the eureka (sometimes from the actual attackers) and what stops early rushes is warriors, not archers which will come too few too late, and slingers are actually pretty worthless in these cases if you didn't make archery yet anyways.

It's sort of apples and oranges regardless. Unless you have desert nearby and are Qin, you probably aren't going to be able to build mids that early anyways. And if you are Qin, you can have both easily too....

 

[montalaar]

great wonder!

yet, situational. as almost all of them.

often map rolls a city with stellar production and low food. or happens to roll near good natural wonder, but no water. then ToA serves very well, if camp is near. and first city can grow fast. and chopping ToA can be done in few turns. great wonder.

 

[bite]

The ToA is one of those Wonders I don't go for anymore as the AI always beets me to it

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I just don't understand the Temple. The food I get. Artemis is the goddess of the hunt so bonus food makes sense.

But why +3 housing and amenities?

Is there something about the real ToA that I'm missing, that would warrant bonus housing and amenities as an in-game representation?

If you are hunting cities I think the +3 housing and amenities make sense.

BTW, anybody not building the Temple of Artemis here?
*I had planned to chop up an encampment, Basilikoi Paides, and attendant Hetairoi here, but diverted when I saw it was available.

Spoiler Artemis :

 

[AmazonQueen]

If you are hunting cities I think the +3 housing and amenities make sense.

BTW, anybody not building the Temple of Artemis here?
*I had planned to chop up an encampment, Basilikoi Paides, and attendant Hetairoi here, but diverted when I saw it was available.

Spoiler Artemis :

View attachment 500455

I must be missing it. I only see you gaining 5 amenities (so slightly more than1 luxury) from it. Not saying its worthless but is it worth prioritizing?

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I liked building it here.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I must be missing it. I only see you gaining 5 amenities (so slightly more than1 luxury) from it. Not saying its worthless but is it worth prioritizing?

The amenities are certainly nice. But I'm really building it for the +4 food and +3 housing. It will give me the population I need to mine the hilly areas to the south and create an endless horde of Hetairoi.

Spoiler ToA---27.5 Production :

Top tier wonder IMO.

 

[Halcyan2]

I like the Temple of Artemis. Wonder heavy cities often run out of tiles for resources and housing. ToA provides +4 food plus +3 housing. The amenities are nice because you can control which cities get the amenities. With luxury amenities, the AI distributes them, which could mean that your crappy not important cities get the extra amenities instead of your key production cities. By ensuring 3-5 amenities in your key cities, you can make sure they are Happy or Ecstatic even if your other cities are merely Content.

 

[KaptainK714]

I feel that it would be better to spend production on your first settler rather than building ToA, due to the benefits of founding your second city and getting citizens there.

I just don't feel like it would be worthwhile to build ToA. Now if ToA arrived a bit later when you have 3/4 cities, that would be cool.

well i do build 1st settler then go for ToA. can think of 3x i havent gotten the Wonder

 

[reddishrecue]

I got toa the other day and its bonuses were great. I had camps and pastures that added up. I had 5 pastures and camps within 4 tiles of toa which gave the right bonuses. I had a great capital on this one.

 

[cain3456]

Then looked up damnatio memoriae which led me to this really weird Roman Emporor named Elagabalus. Then I spent an hour reading about this guy. His life was crazy. How you gonna hand the keys to the Ferrari (the Roman Empire) to a 14 year old boy?


I know. This guy made Caligula look like a stone-cold sober ascetic.