Akka
Moody old mage.
You realize he's just throwing propaganda BS by trying to pretend that Russia actually didn't do this and it's all evil NATO conspiracy blabla ?
[RD] Is NATO a threat to Russia? If so, how?
- Thread starter amadeus
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Snowygerry
Deity
I take the opportunity the ACG offers to converse with the enemy, there is always something you can learn..and Russians here in Belgium are not inclined to discuss politics.
During the Cold War we did not have this option,
I often wondered how it would have been if the internet had existed in 1943, would I be here making jokes about the Eastern Front ?
Would I be pretending to be a loyal party member online while secretly working for the resistance..one never knows.
During the Cold War we did not have this option,
I often wondered how it would have been if the internet had existed in 1943, would I be here making jokes about the Eastern Front ?
Would I be pretending to be a loyal party member online while secretly working for the resistance..one never knows.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
"China has more to lose if Russia fails, because it will be next."
Britain slaps sanctions on China for ‘malicious’ cyberattacks on MPs and voters
Sanctions announced against two Chinese state actors and firm linked to regime over ‘malicious’ hacks into a ‘treasure trove’ of personal data of parliamentarians and 40 million voters – as MPs call for tougher actionwww.independent.co.uk
In same way as Russia. Interference in elections, hackers, then, presumably, poisoning will take place
But my question already has been answered. When Russia fails, China will be next, become some people say ...
When Russia fails, China will find a huge piece of prime Siberian real estate falling into its lap... some of which it used to own.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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- Dec 4, 2006
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- 15,069
Amazing how the delusion holds. "when Russia fails..."
Which part of NATO got militarily defeated in Ukraine have you missed?
Which part of europe's economy going into recession and Russia's continuing to grow have you missed?
And you're still pretending that Russia will fail? The projection is strong in these people!
You only know enough to parrot the state propaganda you feed on. Carry on then. By all means support your government emptying whatever remains in its warehouses into Ukraine.
Which part of NATO got militarily defeated in Ukraine have you missed?
Which part of europe's economy going into recession and Russia's continuing to grow have you missed?
And you're still pretending that Russia will fail? The projection is strong in these people!
You only know enough to parrot the state propaganda you feed on. Carry on then. By all means support your government emptying whatever remains in its warehouses into Ukraine.
Bonyduck Campersang
Deity
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What's odd about that Moscow massacre is that instead of the usual radicalised extremist wanting to go down in a blaze of glory (like school shooters in USA but with an Islamist 'manifesto') this particular attack was carried out by a bunch of desperates bribed by the group recruiting them and who fled after the attack. I don't know if there's been a similar ISIS attack in the past.
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Zardnaar
Deity
Muddy those waters huh.
It’s pretty funny, yeah.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Look ma! Projection irony!
Klaus Hergersheimer
Prince
Is nafo a threat?
nafo-ofan.org
We Are NAFO
The history of NAFO and its expansion is quite the tale. Read about it here.
nafo-ofan.org
Show us the numbers please.
War economy is powering Russia's growth at this moment. It's not something that can be sustained for a long time, and will have consequences.
EnglishEdward
Deity
That war economy seems more real to me than the derivatives and digital currency trading economy.
Bonyduck Campersang
Deity
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To any reasonable person's sanity, yes.Is nafo a threat?
We Are NAFO
The history of NAFO and its expansion is quite the tale. Read about it here.
It takes a lot of ignorance to pretend that Europe's economy is struggling while Russia is actually on the rise. Russia is burning through its reserves at a crazy rate, and the war economy basically requires it to eat its own tail.
Russia's economy is fine in the same way Germany's economy was fine during WW2. Sure, it massively expanded its output, but it was basically going broke before the war even started and only survived because it was a dictatorship that kept everyone in line and no one really dared to ask how things truly looked, not because there was anything sustainable about it. They basically had to rob the reserves of Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc. to have any means for foreign trade.
A war economy can work during times of war, but it is not in any way healthy, unless you are bankrolling someone else. There is a reason why all the European powers were basically broke at the end of WW1.
It's truly funny to claim that the war is somehow a big burden on the west while not so much on Russia. The exact opposite is the case. Russia has lost a ton of people, and it is burning through military stocks and monetary reserves that took decades to build. They also burned bridges with their biggest customers, and are now bound to the whims of China and India, who are willing to buy from them, but can demand any price they want.
Europe, meanwhile, has send some of its military supplies, but needed to restock anyway. It has lost no men or material. And while some European nations definately counted on Russia to supply certain raw materials, the crisis on that ended quite some time ago. And when it comes to the US, they never had such a golden opportunity before. If it weren't for Republicans ruining it for themselves, the USA could trade something they have an abundance of in return for weakening Russia tremendously. Not only is the cost minimal for the US, while the damage to Russia is huge, but the USA would actually benefit if they send a whole lot more. They are the biggest producer of military material in the world, in times of crisis everyone wants to buy from them.
There is no reason to assume that Russia will collapse, even if Ukraine regains its strength and support increases again, but at the same time, things are going horrifically for Russia. This was supposed to be a quick strike that reset the table before anyone could react. Instead it turned into a quagmire that is a huge drain on resources and drastically reduced the one thing Russia is relying on: exporting resources.
Russia's economy is fine in the same way Germany's economy was fine during WW2. Sure, it massively expanded its output, but it was basically going broke before the war even started and only survived because it was a dictatorship that kept everyone in line and no one really dared to ask how things truly looked, not because there was anything sustainable about it. They basically had to rob the reserves of Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc. to have any means for foreign trade.
A war economy can work during times of war, but it is not in any way healthy, unless you are bankrolling someone else. There is a reason why all the European powers were basically broke at the end of WW1.
It's truly funny to claim that the war is somehow a big burden on the west while not so much on Russia. The exact opposite is the case. Russia has lost a ton of people, and it is burning through military stocks and monetary reserves that took decades to build. They also burned bridges with their biggest customers, and are now bound to the whims of China and India, who are willing to buy from them, but can demand any price they want.
Europe, meanwhile, has send some of its military supplies, but needed to restock anyway. It has lost no men or material. And while some European nations definately counted on Russia to supply certain raw materials, the crisis on that ended quite some time ago. And when it comes to the US, they never had such a golden opportunity before. If it weren't for Republicans ruining it for themselves, the USA could trade something they have an abundance of in return for weakening Russia tremendously. Not only is the cost minimal for the US, while the damage to Russia is huge, but the USA would actually benefit if they send a whole lot more. They are the biggest producer of military material in the world, in times of crisis everyone wants to buy from them.
There is no reason to assume that Russia will collapse, even if Ukraine regains its strength and support increases again, but at the same time, things are going horrifically for Russia. This was supposed to be a quick strike that reset the table before anyone could react. Instead it turned into a quagmire that is a huge drain on resources and drastically reduced the one thing Russia is relying on: exporting resources.
Senethro
Overlord
If it were easy, it would be over.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
NATO country warns Putin of terrorist attack
Putin: “these actions resemble outright blackmail and the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
Attack happens
Putin is am bigger threat to Russia than NATO could ever be.
And of course, whenever Putin craps the bed, it's Ukraine's/NATO's/VS's fault.
No wonder he's Trump's role model
Putin: “these actions resemble outright blackmail and the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
Attack happens
Putin is am bigger threat to Russia than NATO could ever be.
And of course, whenever Putin craps the bed, it's Ukraine's/NATO's/VS's fault.
No wonder he's Trump's role model
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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On the economy you can look up the "western" IMF, or any number of websites. They all agree.
Moreover, you can compare Russia's ability to scale up its military industry with the total failure of all nato countries to do the same.
A comparison of industrial potential, real industry not GDP, was enough to predict the outcome of this war at the start. Digital derivatives do not produce war material. Industrial workers and inputs do.
On the war you will simply keep believing the propaganda until Ukraine fully collapses. But look at the verified past and judge the performance of the news you consume. The abject failure of the "couteroffensive" was buried in those news. Either no numbers presented about casualties and materiel losses. Or where they were presented, they were ridiculous, made up. In any modern war the side dropping the most explosives on the other side causes the most casualties. Even only looking at the ration of explosives used by either side allows for a check on the numbers being put forward by either side. There was projection all right: wherever Ukraine (NATO, actually) claimed it was killing 10x more russian soldiers, the ration of explosives used was the reverse - and that much was acknowleged because it was necessary to justify continuing to transfer more stocks to ukraine. Then how could thh casualty ration be against Russia? It couldn't, it was a lie. The reality is what is only now being talked about, Ukraine is running out of men because it was the side suffering horrendous losses in the front lines.
But no one talked about that for two years in western media, as far as I could see. Verbotten. The narrative was always that the russians were losing many more troops than the ukranians. A lie from the start, and a lie deployed to justify refusing to negotiate, to justify carrying on with the war and continuing to recruit more ukranians to make up for the losses. Fear not, do not flee from the draft for we are winning. It was a lie targeting first and foremost the ukranian population. For "morale". But the false numbers were simply echoed in western media, and with a purpose there also. To justify "continued support" and the refusal to enter negotiations. And by people who did know better (like generals doing the rounds on TV for commentary). And you fell for it, and will now have trouble with the change in narrative that is being operated just now. Government propaganda in western Europe has shifted from weak Russia ready to crumble, to Russia being a threat to western Europe. Look at what that phony, Macron, is saying: it is government propaganda.
So, as a plebe who is served "news, which is true, is russia a gas station with nukes? Or is Russia the biggest military power in the continent about to roll over NATO if the draft isn't reintroduced in western countries?
The reality is neither, btw. Lies and more lies, that is what the population is served. I do think most people no longer believe anything they are served. There is and will be a minority of true believes, the professional classes occuping confy management jobs. Who are actually the incompetents dragging Europe down. The ones who wasted european industries because finance was more profitable. The ones unable to set up any war economy because their whole experience is of extracting rens from an economy. The ones who voraciously consume "media" to pretend to be up-to-date and knowlegeble about the world. The last ones to be deceived by flimsy propaganda. @Wastl above privides a perfect example abpout the "well informed" deceived classes. And the ever reliable Ziggy, capable of believing on the weakness of Russia and the russian threat at the same time.
There is a whiff of the 1780s about.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
You really live in an imaginary world where you have to make stuff up in order to make a point.
I never made any claims on Russian weakness. But reality never stopped you making nonsense claims before, and it won't stop you now
Look ma! Projection irony!
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Russia needs to put 30% of its budget to sustain its war production.
West will do it with 3-4%. Problem in a democracy is to sell to the voting people those +2% in war production.
Precision is a factor there. Dropping 3 tons bombs near a trench defended by five people doesn't have the same effect as thousands of small tungsten fragment in a shell exploding right over a few dozen of soldiers in a training camp.
But yeah, I'm concerned by an eventual collapse, news in western propaganda are not good since 2-3 months. And the consequences would be a larger conflict, not peace.
I don't watch TV, I don't have one since 20 years.
Sources ?
Western propaganda, quick search examples
February 2022, long war ahead:
France's Macron Warns 'War Will Last' - The Moscow Times
The world must brace for a long war between Russia and Ukraine after Moscow launched an invasion of its pro-Western neighbour, French President Emmanuel Macron warned on Saturday.
April 2023, Russia is an existential threat:
Front-line NATO allies worry they could be next after Russia's invasion of Ukraine and are getting ready for a fight
Russia's devastating invasion of Ukraine sent shockwaves through NATO's Baltic members, who fear they could be future targets of Russian aggression.
www.businessinsider.com
a gas station with nukes, and with tons of soviet era military stock, and an imperialistic ex-KGB officer at his head. A danger for all it's neighboring countries.
Because NATO weakness is not in its military, it's in its political weakness and (rightful) fear of a direct confrontation with a nuclear power, I have a very low trust in "article 5" if the Baltic States are invaded by Russia for example.
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