Is pornography a legitimate form of art?

[warpus]

FIRST OFF PLEASE DO NOT LINK TO OR POST ANY KIND OF MATERIAL THAT IS PORNOGRAPHIC IN NATURE. This thread is intended to discuss the issue in the title, not post or describe pornography itself. Please adhere to the forum rules and keep this in mind.

With that out of the way, is pornography a legitimate art form? First, a definition of pornography is necessary for this discussion to work. I am not simply talking about "erotic" art or art that displays human sexuality. I am talking about images, videos, or text where the principle objective in creating it is to arouse.

I honestly do not know where I stand on this issue. I am interested in hearing your arguments.

Poll coming!

It can be, but it is almost never produced as such.

 

[azzaman333]

What about those Japanese woodcuts from the samurai period? The Ukiyo-e. They're certainly erotic, and the pictures are very well done and beautiful -if you are not grossed out, I mean; some people throw up at the sight of porn-... is that enough?

And some people get off to "people throwing up at the sight of porn" porn.

 

[Agent327]

What about those Japanese woodcuts from the samurai period? The Ukiyo-e. They're certainly erotic, and the pictures are very well done and beautiful -if you are not grossed out, I mean; some people throw up at the sight of porn-... is that enough?

Ukiyo-e means 'the fleeting life'; while there may be erotic subjects it is not a characteristic of this form of art. For instance the woodprints of Hokusai and other masters of this period lack eroticism as a subject altogether.

 

[Takhisis]

And some people get off to "people throwing up at the sight of porn" porn.

Well, I did say that there's countless myriad types of weirdos.

Ukiyo-e means 'the fleeting life'; while there may be erotic subjects it is not a characteristic of this form of art. For instance the woodprints of Hokusai and other masters of this period lack eroticism as a subject altogether.

I obviously meant only the erotic ones. Are those art, porn, or both? Of course, from the western perspective, as the Japanese view on life is different.

 

[Grey Fox]

Art by definition is hard to define. And to me is almost undefinable. It is very much subject to opinion.

But there is one simple line in the definition of Art which I think applies very good on Pornography:

Art is the process OR product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions.

So you can go two ways about it. Either you deliberately create Art by "arranging elements" to appeal the senses or emotions. OR the appealing of the viewers senses or emotions; is a product of the item itself.

Much porn Lack an artistic touch or anything that could be used to determine it as art. But even the least artistic pieces of porn can be art in the Eye of the Beholder.

Which leads to the saying: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

And my point here is that Everything you can find Beauty in can also be Art.

And:

Pornography or porn is the portrayal of explicit sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual excitement.

Is one case of "deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions".

But could also be described as a form of craftsmanship, that only fills one specific purpose. That of sexual excitement.

BUT, can not the product of craftsmanship also be art? Of course it can.
A Chair can be the most beautiful thing you've seen, and it's shape can seem perfect to your eyes.

Porn is definitely a genre of many types of Art or Media which can also be art.
To name a few:

• Film - Video - Probably the most media for porn these days
• Photography - many claim photography isn't art either, well too bad for them
• Paintings - what most people think of when they think about "art"
• Animation - e.g. Anime or Cartoon style
• Graphic Novels - e.g. Manga or Comics

And the pornographic elements in these artforms can be considered sub-art or art enhancers, or the main artistic element of the item. Based on how you look at it, and how the specific.

And remember, you can't say something isn't art just cause it is a failure at doing it's job. Like a pornographic item which didn't please you.

So, essentially, you have to judge each example based on only what it is.
You can't say that all porn is not Art. A specific example of porn however, sure.
But it will only be your opinion still, unless there is an unanimous decision, it might still be art (to someone)

Ok, now that I've taken care of the question if Porn is Art at all, to the question in the topic and why I voted Yes.

Is pornography a legitimate form of art?

Yes it is. People might be offended, but this is basically a culture thing.
The freer the people the more opinions are accepted, (or at least tolerated).
Therefor, just because of Freedom of Speech, and because of my opinion of Pornography as whole;
Yes, pornography Is a legitimate form of art.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'd say pornography is like architecture in that for something to be good pornography we do not judge it soley by artistic merits (as we do art) even though aesthetics play an extremely important role in its proper execution.

As such I vote no.

The rather contentious implication of this being that architecture is not a form of art. Is that really what you meant to say?

I suppose it's worth establishing whether something must be "art" in it's entirety before it can be considered art at all.

 

[Agent327]

I just like to say I very much appreciate Grey Fox' post on the subject. Well-reasoned and thought through. Thank you, sir!

I obviously meant only the erotic ones. Are those art, porn, or both? Of course, from the western perspective, as the Japanese view on life is different.

Well, as said, they were relatively few. But since they were woodprints and could be mass produced some of them were also of an erotic nature. Personally I don't know any pornographic ones. If you have a link, I think you can post it (or, if not, PM me). Generally speaking however - from what I have seen of Oriental pornography - I can't imagine being very impressed. Art can be very erotic without being pornographic at all.

 

[Grey Fox]

I just like to say I very much appreciate Grey Fox' post on the subject. Well-reasoned and thought through. Thank you, sir!

Thanks!
I must say I am proud of myself

Art can be very erotic without being pornographic at all.

Couldn't you say that Erotica is the part of Pornography that is Trying to create art. While Commercial Porn is trying to please the customer, the art being a by-product.

Erotica (from the Greek Eros—"desire") or "curiosa," are works of art, including literature, photography, film, sculpture and painting, that deal substantively with erotically stimulating or sexually arousing descriptions. Erotica is a modern word used to describe the portrayal of the human anatomy and sexuality with high-art aspirations, differentiating such work from commercial pornography.

Eroticism is an aesthetic focus on sexual desire, especially the feelings of anticipation of sexual activity.

And again:

Art is the process OR product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions.

 

[Agent327]

Thanks!
I must say I am proud of myself

Couldn't you say that Erotica is the part of Pornography that is Trying to create art. While Commercial Porn is trying to please the customer, the art being a by-product.

You could, but I was talking about art there; pornography, being business, generally only stumbles onto being art - when it's done with care. (Although apparently the average consumer of pornography couldn't care less about erotica, porn can indeed be completely unerotic - and often is, which is why I generally don't like porn at all, apart from the question whether it arouses or not.)

 

[Bill3000]

The rather contentious implication of this being that architecture is not a form of art. Is that really what you meant to say?

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Not all buildings are designed to appeal to aesthetics.

 

[Traitorfish]

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Not all buildings are designed to appeal to aesthetics.

Of course, but Perfection suggested that art must be art in it's entirety, which leaves all "applied art" such as architecture, graphic design, illustration, and so on and so forth, in the "non-art" category. Not all art is of the "fine" or "high" variety, after all.

 

[Takhisis]

But then a cathedral wouldn't be 'art'. That's nonsense.

 

[Plotinus]

Of course, but Perfection suggested that art must be art in it's entirety, which leaves all "applied art" such as architecture, graphic design, illustration, and so on and so forth, in the "non-art" category. Not all art is of the "fine" or "high" variety, after all.

Absolutely right, and one might add fashion to that list. Or the theatrical posters which Toulouse-Lautrec painted. Architecture isn't necessarily art, but it can be art. Similarly, it may be that pornography isn't necessarily art, but it can be. At the very least, the fact that it has a "function" does not preclude it from being art. If it's not art, there needs to be some other reason.

 

[Traitorfish]

But then a cathedral wouldn't be 'art'. That's nonsense.

Exactly. Art can serve a practical purpose, and is often the better for it; good architecture, for example, ideally enhances or expresses an underlying function.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Inspired by this thread, I asked my younger brother to ask his art teacher tomorow.

 

[Takhisis]

I hope he's still in Poland, because in Chevenezuela it could cause problems.

 

[TheLastOne36]

How so?

It should be even more acceptable here as here people are much more open to sex then in the West.

 

[Agent327]

Hm. Most pornography is made and produced in the US, though - so it must be evil and imperialistic etc. (Another way for the Americans to 'invade' Latin America?) Or is there a large Latin American porn market?

 

[Takhisis]

Hm. Most pornography is made and produced in the US, though - so it must be evil and imperialistic etc. (Another way for the Americans to 'invade' Latin America?) Or is there a large Latin American porn market?

I meant that, actually. 'Evil foreign influence'! Don't you inhabitants of the benevolent dictatorship have to shower for only three minutes?

 

[LucyDuke]

Hm. Most pornography is made and produced in the US, though - so it must be evil and imperialistic etc. (Another way for the Americans to 'invade' Latin America?) Or is there a large Latin American porn market?

There's no shortage of Latin American porn.