Israeli tanks in Lebanon

[shadow2k]

When has there ever been sustained peace? Israel needs to go back to the pre 67 borders, but this has never been offered seriously, until it is then it seems there can be no peace.

They aren't even asking for a return to pre-67 borders. They're asking for thousands of terrorists to be released from prison, for two soldiers (talk about disproportionate). Everyone forgets to mention that they can't seem to return the 8 dead soldiers...

Besides, they don't want a return to pre-67 borders. What they really want is a return to pre-48 borders.

 

[Esox]

That's true, I was in prod the US mode, so I apply it equally to anyone with an indirect role in the matter, Iran, syria, UK, US that'll clear stuff up. It's all a big game to some people, but then there not the ones facing rocket attacks, high explosive shells, or bombing. If they were there no doubt they'd be frightened, wiser and a lot less insistent on war no doubt.

Fair enough on the first part.
As to the second, my country and yours have been hit by violence directly resulting from the Middle East crisis. People died, people were terrified.
I don't think anyone here in the US sees it as a 'big game.' We don't want any more violence, neither does anyone anywhere else, unless they are simply a brainwashed violent sociopath.

 

[Sidhe]

@shadow

Well I looked at that site but I can't find any reference to the recent meeting, so I guess it actually is not in the public eye? Maybe someone else can find it if indeed it exists, that way we can actually see what the proposals were, instead of speculating on what the US wants, which to my mind is to wait untill Israel realises it can't defeat terrorism by stoking up hatred against itself, ie a sort of pseudo logic, of defeating terrorism with violence and indiscriminate bombings, like that'll work, like terrorists need more excuses to add to the pile. Which will most likely be at the point where it realises it doesn't stand a hope in hells chance of destroying Hezbollah, as it'll just grow a new head elsewhere even if they destroyed 99.9% of it's agents. How many terrorist groups are their in the middle East anyway, It's got to be about 30 or so IIRC, they must be looking at this as a means to drum up more support. Maybe Israel is looking long term, maybe it's thinking if this works Syria is next? It's not like anyones going to stop Israel is it?

They aren't even asking for a return to pre-67 borders. They're asking for thousands of terrorists to be released from prison, for two soldiers (talk about disproportionate). Everyone forgets to mention that they can't seem to return the 8 dead soldiers...

Besides, they don't want a return to pre-67 borders. What they really want is a return to pre-48 borders.

Your talking about terror groups only of course, let's make that clear, a two state deal has been mooted by Hamas, and it's predecessors more times than I care to mention, And Lebanon certainly doesn't wish this. I think Syria would like the Golan heights back too.

 

[shadow2k]

Sidhe, I think what you're looking for is this resolution, which the US did veto. That was only regarding Palestine however, and was drafted before the situation escalated and Hezbollah got involved. That's the only one the US vetoed, and the reason why is obvious...the situation had significantly changed.

All this stuff is listed on the "meetings" page. It has text for who said what, copies of proposed resolutions, etc. July 20th is the last one (in which Annan talks about the fact that their own UNIFL needs help in Lebanon)...and they normally don't do anything on weekends.

 

[bgast1]

They aren't even asking for a return to pre-67 borders. They're asking for thousands of terrorists to be released from prison, for two soldiers (talk about disproportionate). Everyone forgets to mention that they can't seem to return the 8 dead soldiers...

Besides, they don't want a return to pre-67 borders. What they really want is a return to pre-48 borders.

I am not very well schooled in political science, just what I read in the newspapers or hear on the news. But from what I have read and heard I think that I would have to agree that this is an accurate assessment.

Let me say that I appreciate that this board has so many people from different countries and it is good to read other viewpoints. Thanks everyone.

@Lotus49--People generally have problems obeying the tenents of their faith because they are human. Try as hard as we might, it is still in our nature to rebel. Orders are still followed in the military (at least, I think they are), but when you expect people to live in a police state then you open up a new can of worms. Your posting nevertheless is probably accurate, but we have to deal with the big "if", and for that reason we will never know.

I would also think it is accurate to state a peace in the middle east will not happen in my lifetime. I just turned 55 years old the 8th of this month.

 

[Leatherneck]

questions how many civillians have to die before Israel loses all credibility in this situation? for you any way, how much innocent death do you want to see? Does it matter to you in the least, or is it acceptable.

If a "civilian" hides weapons in there home and allows Hizboallah to opperated within, they are not "innocent" but it makes for great propaganda when they are killed."

War crimes as a UN spokesman described it today, he was disgusted by the damage, he was there, you can remove yourself by thousands of miles, but your still human right?

The UN stands for UNecessary ... have you been in war? I have, and it's not pretty, it's not clean, people die, both guilty and innocent it's the way it works. They have not invented and bomb or bullet yet that only kills the bad guys.

All I can say is it must be wonderfull to live in a world where Israel is always right, despite them failing to obey over a hundred resolutions by the UN, back in the old days when the US wasn't so blindly devoted to Israel that they even agreed with some of the resoltuions, now all you get form the US is that it's a one sided deal and that there is no injustice but that performed on the Isralies, boo friggin who cry me a river, I see just as many injustice elsewhere in the Middle East now, and bombing civillians with callous regard for the consequences to innocents is really starting to tell on my sympathy levels.

There was a UN (the you love so much) resolution for Lebanon to disarm Hizboallah, did they? No they didn't, so who is at fault? Who invaded who first? Who struck first?

Why are there so few Americans willing to question their government or the Israelis on these threads I wonder? Are you all so brainwashed by your media that you believe that the only thing to come out of Palestine or the Lebanon or Syria is a fanatic with a bomb strapped to his chest, because talking on these middle East threads if there are any moderate Americans they certainly like to keep quiet, all you generally get is people saying our government is hunky dorey, everything Israel does is right and the enemy is terrorism!!!

Maybe it's because our government is transparant in many ways, we question out government many, many times, way do we not do it on these threads, I guess doing here will not solve anything and we question our elected officials directly. What are you or anyone else here going to do?

The enemy is war, your just too blinkered to see it. Cmon it can't just be the Republican drones that have the largest and sometimes seemingly only voice? Can it? Frankly the Republican neo con drone, let's make the middle East one big Israeli country is starting to get tired, get some perspective please no one expects anyone to sit on the fence like me, but the level of blind belief here is extroardinary. You guys need prodding badly to wake up, deprogram yourself. The middle East needs peace, what it deosn't need is encouragement to continue with an endless cycle of tit for tat violence by a country who delights in perpetrating and encouraging wars that generally lead nowhere except to piles of bodies.

Tell you what why don't you and you country solve of the worlds problems, I can tell you as an American we get tried of being blamed and call on every world problem. I don't know where your at and what country you are from you can bet that at some point the US has helped you country. And we never ask for anything.

Oh and by the way I was in Lebanon as a US Marine on Oct 23, 1983 (82,83 and 84) when HIZBOALLAH bombed and killed 241 fellow servicemen in a TERRORIST act. Many of them very close freinds of mine and I still have the scares. So do support Israeli action against them. you bet I do and if called I go after them myself. SO before you say it's blind support, it's far from blind. HIZBOALLAH must be disarmed, disbanded and if required distroyed. Again you speak and no not what you say.

 

[Sidhe]

At shadow

Which one was the meeting where bush said yo tony? the last one yes? I believe he prefers to be known as Blairo anyway. This was taken as disrespectful, sounds more paly to me, but what do I know

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8780.doc.htm

“Let me be frank with the Council,” he said, “The mission’s assessment is that there are serious obstacles to reaching a ceasefire, or even to diminishing the violence quickly.” Hizbollah’s provocative attack on 12 July had been the trigger for the crisis. It was clear that the Lebanese Government had had no advance knowledge of the attack. Hizbollah’s actions, which the group portrayed as defending Palestinian and Lebanese interests, in fact, did neither. They held an entire nation hostage. He again condemned Hizbollah’s attacks on Israel and acknowledged Israel’s right to defend itself under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. He also condemned Hizbollah’s reckless disregard for the wishes of the elected Government of Lebanon.

He said Israel had confirmed that its operation in Lebanon had wider and more far-reaching goals than the return of its captured soldiers, and that its aim was to end the threat posed by Hizbollah. Although Israel had stated that it had no quarrel with the Government or people of Lebanon, a number of its actions had hurt and killed Lebanese civilians and military personnel, and had caused great damage to infrastructure. “While Hizbollah’s actions are deplorable and Israel has a right to defend itself, the excessive use of force is to be condemned,” he said.

He said the mission reported that many of its interlocutors in the region had noted that, whatever damage Israel’s operations might be doing to Hizbollah, they were doing little or nothing to decrease popular support for Hizbollah, and doing a great deal to weaken the Government of Lebanon. “In short, the very Government, which Israel wants to extend its control, has itself become a hostage to the crisis, is less able than ever to deploy its forces in the areas necessary to control Hizbollah, and is appealing to the international community for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire,” he said. Moreover, any analogy with Afghanistan under the Taliban was wholly misleading. The Government of Lebanon clearly espoused democratic values and deserved all possible support from the international community.

This is interesting too, I'm on the UN's side in both cases, seem to be making alot of sense and appear impartial, precisely the sort of rhetoric the situation needs.

Nice the Palestinian quesiton, I can see why this didn't pass, it asks Israel to strive for a peacefull solution, it asks it to make concessions, it asks for a reasonable solution, who would want that? Oh yeah 10 -4- 1 Probably everyone but the US. We all know why this didn't pass, the US believes war is the answer and is hoping as usual that the situation will be resolved in Israels favour, yes of course it is. Pardon me for being cynical

United Nations S/2006/508
Security Council Distr.: General
12 July 2006
Original: English
06-42931 (E) 130706
*0642931*
Qatar: draft resolution
The Security Council,
Reaffirming all its relevant resolutions, in particular, 242 (1967), 338 (1973),
1397 (2002) and 1515 (2003),
Reaffirming the applicable rules and principles of international law, including
international humanitarian law and all relevant human rights laws, in particular the
Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of
12 August 1949,
Expressing its grave concern at the continued deterioration of the situation on
the ground in the Palestinian Territory occupied by Israel since 1967, including East
Jerusalem, during recent weeks,
Condemning military assault being carried out by Israel, the occupying Power,
in the Gaza Strip, which has caused the killing and injury of dozens of Palestinian
civilians, and the destruction of Palestinian property and civilian infrastructure,
notably Gaza’s main power station, and condemning also the detention of
democratically elected Palestinian and other officials,
Condemning also the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel and the abduction
of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian armed groups from Gaza, and the recent
abduction and killing of an Israeli civilian in the West Bank,
Condemning all acts of violence, terror and destruction,
1. Calls for the immediate and unconditional release of the abducted Israeli
soldier;
2. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, for the immediate and
unconditional release of all detained Palestinian ministers, members of the
Palestinian Legislative Council and other officials, as well as other illegally
detained Palestinian civilians;
3. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to halt its military operations
and its disproportionate use of force that endanger the Palestinian civilian
population and to withdraw its forces to their original positions outside the Gaza
Strip;
4. Emphasizes the need to preserve the institutions of the Palestinian
National Authority and Palestinian infrastructure and properties;ഊS/2006/508
06-42931 2
5. Calls upon the Palestinian Authority to take immediate and sustained
action to bring an end to violence, including the firing of rockets on Israeli territory;
6. Urges all concerned parties to abide by their obligations and respect in
all circumstances the rules of international humanitarian law, including the Geneva
Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of
12 August 1949 and refrain from violence against civilian population;
7. Calls on the international community to provide emergency assistance to
the Palestinian people to meet the dire humanitarian situation; and also calls on the
Government of Israel to restore and maintain the continuous and uninterrupted
supply of fuel to Gaza, and to act expeditiously to replace the destroyed equipment
at the Gaza power plant;
8. Calls on both parties, supported by the international community,
including the Quartet, to take immediate steps to create the necessary condition for
the resumption of negotiation and restarting the peace process;
9. Stresses the importance of, and the need to achieve, a just,
comprehensive, and lasting peace in the Middle East, based on all its relevant
resolutions including its resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002) and 1515
(2003), the Madrid terms of reference, the principle of land for peace, the Arab
Peace Initiative adopted by the League of Arab States Summit in March 2002 in
Beirut and the Road Map;
10. Requests the Secretary-General of the United Nations to report back to
the Security Council on the implementation of this resolution in a timely manner;
11. Decides to remain seized of the matter.

 

[Sidhe]

If a "civilian" hides weapons in there home and allows Hizboallah to opperated within, they are not "innocent" but it makes for great propaganda when they are killed."

This is a nonsense, the stockpiles of weapons are not in peoples homes they are near to high population civillian areas. I do wish people would stop using the human shield argument, what do you want Geurillas to do, wave flags on rooftops, live in especially bombable command centres, with big bullseyes on them, and a message saying take us out here, Our leader lives here X

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter? Can you suggest alternative means, or is this just a strawman, like saying well If the palestinian didn't want **** they shouldn't of voted in terrorists, when the two parties are terrorist backed, what choice do you have?

Oh and by the way I was in Lebanon as a US Marine on Oct 23, 1983 (82,83 and 84) when HIZBOALLAH bombed and killed 241 fellow servicemen in a TERRORIST act. Many of them very close freinds of mine and I still have the scares. So do support Israeli action against them. you bet I do and if called I go after them myself. SO before you say it's blind support, it's far from blind. HIZBOALLAH must be disarmed, disbanded and if required distroyed. Again you speak and no not what you say.

That explains why your so biased, understandable, what about the rest?

I agree Hizbollah must be destroyed, this is not the issue, what is the issue is that Israel thinks it can do it, without upsetting the whole fragile area, this will have repurcussions that will haunt Israel I think. You can't destroy terrorism in the Middle East with use of force, it hasn't worked in the last 50 years why does everyone think an untenable position is going to work despite history telling everyone the contrary?

What are you or anyone else here going to do?

Make sure I don't vote for war mongering fools, about all I can do without a direct line to Bush or Tony Blair

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Syria is not going to get the Golan Back, and the territory taken in 67 will stay as long as it is necessary for strategic purposes and defensive depth. The issue of water is also at play, which is often forgotten.
Hamas and Hezbollah have not changed their stripes, and even if they do, they are still tigers, however natilly dressed.

 

[Sidhe]

Syria is not going to get the Golan Back, and the territory taken in 67 will stay as long as it is necessary for strategic purposes and defensive depth. The issue of water is also at play, which is often forgotten.
Hamas and Hezbollah have not changed their stripes, and even if they do, they are still tigers, however natilly dressed.

Oh yeah I know, it's a good analogy for Palestine too, peace will come when Palestine gets pre 1967 territories back, Israel has never seriously offered this though. Until it does I suspect peace will be a pipe dream. Either that or the US will actually let the UN enforce past resolutions with sanctions, oh no that isn't likely to happen either. Israel is untouchable and Palestine isn't even a full UN member(it has no vote) because tadah, guess what: the US wont accept it as a state, even though 2/3rds of the worlds surface have since 1988.

If you ask me Golan heights is all about water, it could concede them easily if it was just about strategic positioning. They are also called the Syrian heights guess why

 

[shadow2k]

Sidhe - If you're talking about the discussion between Bush and Blair where Bush talks with his mouth open and cusses...I doubt you'll find it in the official meeting notes. It wasn't official. I'm sure leaders have discussions all the time there that aren't "official".

The UN is what I'd call...idealistic. They want this and that to happen, and everyone to be happy. That's great. In a utopian society, they'd be dead on. Unfortunately, their resolutions appear to hold no water. If Israel withdraws right now and stops bombing, you'll have peace. And we'll be right back here in a day/week/month/year addressing the issue AGAIN. Because it's not resolved like that, it's swept under the carpet until it pops out again.

As far as that veto, again, look at the date. Jul 12th. When exactly did Hezbollah escalate the conflict? I don't know what sane leader thinks that the US would have agreed to that resolution when it's ally had just been attacked on a second front. Of course we vetoed it. I'm sure we'd veto any current resolution for a cease fire as well, because it wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on. But again, no resolution about Lebanon has hit the table for a vote.

This US wants peace over there. But it has to be sustainable. Not this BS pulling out and getting shelled by rockets. Because that's the only peace to be had at the moment, which isn't really peace at all. It's just enduring the actions of terrorists so the world doesn't cry out. Funny how all those voices were so quiet in the years leading up to this, while the border towns of Israel have to live with one foot in a bomb shelter.

When I hear your voice as loud at times like that, maybe I'll listen.

Fact is, what the UN wants to do is send in a peace keeping force (again). The US and Israel have both said they'll consider it. No formal vote has taken place. It's something that needs to be in place before a cease fire can be considered, the UN knows it, and that's why no resolution has been put on the table. That's why Condoleeza Rice has been sent to the ME. That's why they are still in the talking stage. Because a cease fire means nothing if it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Golan is strategic for its height; some things never change.

There will be no sanctions on Israel, particularly on behalf of an imaginary country by a toothless sordid entity which holds to disgraceful terrorist propaganda. Judea and Samaria never belonged to some artificial construct known as Palestine, but were fully Jordanian.

The Palestinian Arabs are no more a state than Ruritania - both are entertaining fictions created for the purposes of furthering a narrative.
Israel conquered land from three separate real states in 1967, whilst engaged in a war of survival with more than that number. It gave back the Sinai for a reason.

This is the type of situation that was averted in Eastern Europe when the borders changed; certainly it was against the spirit of the then nascent UN, but realpolitik held sway.

Where was Palestine in the 1950s and 1960s? The PLO was founded before 1967 with the express goal of the destruction of Israel. The fedayeen raids were a regular occurence. Where was the international outcry for the state of Palestine in 1958, for example?

Why has there been an increased hearkening to the Arabs since 1967? The particular date of note is 1973, for three reasons.

 

[shadow2k]

Oh yeah I know, it's a good analogy for Palestine too, peace will come when Palestine gets pre 1967 territories back, Israel has never seriously offered this though. Until it does I suspect peace will be a pipe dream. Either that or the US will actually let the UN enforce past resolutions with sanctions, oh no that isn't likely to happen either. Israel is untouchable and Palestine isn't even a full UN member(it has no vote) because tadah, guess what: the US wont accept it as a state, even though 2/3rds of the worlds surface have since 1988.

If you ask me Golan heights is all about water, it could concede them easily if it was just about strategic positioning. They are also called the Syrian heights guess why

Palestine was offered, by Bill Clinton DIRECTLY, the chance to become a state in 2000. A deal that would have resulted in a Palestinian state, with territory in over 97 percent of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem; with Arab East Jerusalem as the capital of that state (including the holy place of the Haram al-Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary); with an international presence in place of the Israeli Defense Force in the Jordan Valley; and with the unlimited right of return for Palestinian refugees to their state but not to Israel.

They did not accept. Instead, they chose to bomb Israeli citizens.

It's my recollection that Syria tried to damn up the Golan Heights to deny Israel WATER. Such loving, peaceful neighbors. I bet they could just pull out of everywhere that every nation there wants them to, and have peace. Unfortunately, they'd all be at the bottom of the Mediterranean at that point.

 

[Leatherneck]

This is a nonsense, the stockpiles of weapons are not in peoples homes they are near to high population civillian areas. I do wish people would stop using the human shield argument, what do you want Geurillas to do, wave flags on rooftops, live in especially bombable command centres, with big bullseyes on them, and a message saying take us out here, Our leader lives here X

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter? Can you suggest alternative means, or is this just a strawman, like saying well If the palestinian didn't want **** they shouldn't of voted in terrorists, when the two parties are terrorist backed, what choice do you have?

It is not nonsense, Hizboallah helps build there homes and provides services and then say OBTW where going to store weapons here or there, actually since your son/husband/family is a member of Hizloallah when we call we need you to fire rockets at target X. Not much different from something the Mafia would do, sound silly ....
Yesterday after a lot (hours) of trying I got through to a freind of mind in Lebanon, so I'm not hell bent against Lebanon, just Hizboallah. They live in the Christian area of Bierut and they said Israel is only targetting their words ... "known Hizboallah stronge holds/targets in Arab neighborhoods as member of Hizboallah live and store arms in these civilian arab neighborhoods." That info I got from the front, it's what I'm told and I have no reason believe these Lebanonese are making it up. There not happy with Israeli actions and setting the recovery back decades, but they understand it.
The area has been, is, and will continue to be a power keg. Israel is not going anywhere and there will never be peace in the middle east, in over 2000 years there hasn't been why would it start now?
As you might know we have the ability to use satellite images that are far better than we know or see (100X clearer than Digital\Google Earth) that can take photos of rockets being fired from behind homes, roof tops etc. I am sure this intel is being shared and used in targeting against Hizboallah which is why some so call civilian targets are hit, they're not really civilian. But as I said it makes for great propaganda and builds hate for Israel and the West and builds support for Hizboallah as the evil Zionist target innocent martyrs. Question is knowing this are they innocent martyrs as the propagande would want you to believe or are they terrorist combatants that are legit military targets? I think the latter.

 

[El_Machinae]

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter?

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter and your opponent finally showed a willingness to hurt the people around you in order to get to you?

 

[Leatherneck]

Fact is, what the UN wants to do is send in a peace keeping force (again).

There has been a UN PKF (peace keeping force) in Lebanon since 1982 and you see what a super, bang up job they have done. The UN as you know, has no teeth. It's UN-needed UN-necessay and UN-important. At one time it had backbone now it has this 1960's peace love and happiness mentality. Maybe they pass a resolution where we all gather around a campfire, hold hands, lite candles and sing Kumbaya, that will solve everything. (WE can only hope it's VETOed.)

 

[Gogf]

This is a nonsense, the stockpiles of weapons are not in peoples homes they are near to high population civillian areas. I do wish people would stop using the human shield argument, what do you want Geurillas to do, wave flags on rooftops, live in especially bombable command centres, with big bullseyes on them, and a message saying take us out here, Our leader lives here X

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter? Can you suggest alternative means, or is this just a strawman, like saying well If the palestinian didn't want **** they shouldn't of voted in terrorists, when the two parties are terrorist backed, what choice do you have?

It doesn't matter if hiding weapons and terrorists in highly populated areas is a shrewd move by the terrorists; it's unethical and the reason why there are civilian casaulties. Unlike the terrorists, Israel doesn't target civilians. That's an important point and one that a lot of people here would do well to remember.

 

[Sidhe]

It is not nonsense, Hizboallah helps build there homes and provides services and then say OBTW where going to store weapons here or there, actually since your son/husband/family is a member of Hizloallah when we call we need you to fire rockets at target X. Not much different from something the Mafia would do, sound silly ....
Yesterday after a lot (hours) of trying I got through to a freind of mind in Lebanon, so I'm not hell bent against Lebanon, just Hizboallah. They live in the Christian area of Bierut and they said Israel is only targetting their words ... "known Hizboallah stronge holds/targets in Arab neighborhoods as member of Hizboallah live and store arms in these civilian arab neighborhoods." That info I got from the front, it's what I'm told and I have no reason believe these Lebanonese are making it up. There not happy with Israeli actions and setting the recovery back decades, but they understand it.
The area has been, is, and will continue to be a power keg. Israel is not going anywhere and there will never be peace in the middle east, in over 2000 years there hasn't been why would it start now?
As you might know we have the ability to use satellite images that are far better than we know or see (100X clearer than Digital\Google Earth) that can take photos of rockets being fired from behind homes, roof tops etc. I am sure this intel is being shared and used in targeting against Hizboallah which is why some so call civilian targets are hit, they're not really civilian. But as I said it makes for great propaganda and builds hate for Israel and the West and builds support for Hizboallah as the evil Zionist target innocent martyrs. Question is knowing this are they innocent martyrs as the propagande would want you to believe or are they terrorist combatants that are legit military targets? I think the latter.

Actually the reason why their failing to hit Hezbollah and succeeding in the cases where there not targetting specific buildings is because Hezbollah fires rockets, the runs away like a bat out of hell, two minutes later the Israelis bomb where they were, most often hitting nothing but the civillians, this is guerilla war fare, attack and run, attack and run, attrition is supposedly the watchword. To me their targetting is no less descriminatory than the Israelis.

You still failed to answer my question, what tactics do you suggest they use instead? Anyone who houses Hezbollah weapons in their home is not a civillian, they have joined the cause, unless of course they are forced into doing it, I have no idea whether this happens.

It doesn't matter if hiding weapons and terrorists in highly populated areas is a shrewd move by the terrorists; it's unethical and the reason why there are civilian casaulties. Unlike the terrorists, Israel doesn't target civilians. That's an important point and one that a lot of people here would do well to remember.

So the israeli bombs don't kill people the terrorists do that's some mightily warped logic there. The reason their are civillian casualties is both sides care little that they are hitting nothing 99% of the time. The one who pulled the trigger is guilty on either side, sorry that's another strawman.

What would you do if you were a freedom fighter and your opponent finally showed a willingness to hurt the people around you in order to get to you?

Be apauled at the brutality, file it away for future recruitment drives, and still maintain the same methods of storing weapons, after all what choice have you got and it achieves two very real and apreciable goals, hatred against Israel by other Arab peoples and outcry by the west, excepting the US of course,they're driving to make Israel look like an immoral monster and they're succeeding, although I doubt it is planned, they no doubt thought Israel wouldn't be nasty enough to kill hundreds of civiliians.

 

[Gogf]

So the israeli bombs don't kill people the terrorists do that's some mightily warped logic there. The reason their are civillian casualties is both sides care little that they are hitting nothing 99% of the time. The one who pulled the trigger is guilty on either side, sorry that's another strawman.

No, you're not understanding the situation. One side fires off rockets and doesn't care what it hits, as long as it hits something in Israel. The other side launches strikes with expensive weapons that are aimed at the people who launch the rockets. While one side tries to kill civilians, the other tries to kill those who murder their citizens. Yes, there are unintentional civilian casaulties along the way, but in what war were there not civilian casaulties? Not only are civilian casaulties essentially a necessity in any modern war, but they are particularly apt to happen when terrorists do their best to hide in populated areas.

 

[Gogf]

You still failed to asnswer my question, what tactics do you suggest they use instead? ANyone who houses Hezbollah wepaons in their home is not a civillian, they have joined the cause, unless of course they are forced into doing it, I have no idea whether this happens.

So if the terrorists hide weapons in an "innocent civilian's" house, they should be off limits from Israeli bombing?