Italian judge orders arrest of 13 CIA agents for kidnapping terrorist suspect

[Romanfe]

So when they come for you, you'll smile and go along because its for the greater good?

SHould I ever place myself in a situation where I am an accused terrorist, I really won't have that much to smile about to begin with.

Will they actually do anything to try and prove this guys guilt, or just throw him in gotmo?

Better Gitmo than Uzbekistan. Id rather be a Koran in Gitmo than a bible in Iran.

I do not support violence against civilians; I do not agree with jihadists etc. My concern is the flagrent disregard for human rights and international law.

We agree then, at least the first part. Human rights have never been respected by anyone and I doubt that's going to change by hollow words about moral high ground and religious fury (both christian and islamic).

 

[blackheart]

SHould I ever place myself in a situation where I am an accused terrorist, I really won't have that much to smile about to begin with.
Better Gitmo than Uzbekistan. Id rather be a Koran in Gitmo than a bible in Iran.


We agree then, at least the first part. Human rights have never been respected by anyone and I doubt that's going to change by hollow words about moral high ground and religious fury (both christian and islamic).

Here's what you can do, go to a local post office and buy stamps, but request them to NOT be of the American flag. Or better yet, go onto a plan with anti-war paraphenelia in your luggage. Or.... draw ungood pictures of Dubya.

Human rights can be respected, you don't need to have the high moral ground, just to have morals.

 

[Romanfe]

Here's what you can do, go to a local post office and buy stamps, but request them to NOT be of the American flag. Or better yet, go onto a plan with anti-war paraphenelia in your luggage. Or.... draw ungood pictures of Dubya.

or show up on SNL and before your second set, put an upside down American flag on your amp and be banned from coming back on the show.

Human rights can be respected, you don't need to have the high moral ground, just to have morals.

Oh definitely, on a personal level, I think everyone respects human rights, the exceptions of course being serial killers, andcrazed beer-house patrons. On a political level, governments might pay lip service to human rights, but rarely are they followed to the letter of the "law".

 

[Strider]

Sounds to me like a good choice sense Italy screwed up the Abu Abbas situtation.

 

[Jack the Ripper]

The point the Italians are making is that this is just too damned far. The US acts like the middle east is it's playground with it's own "torture states", and the western countries like the UK back it up and defend it.

I dont think americans behead people

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Kidnapping from inside a Western democracy, or any ally for that matter, is just wrong.

 

[Strider]

Kidnapping from inside a Western democracy, or any ally for that matter, is just wrong.

Hey, we've let Italy deal with terrorists on there land once already, and they screwed it up.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Hey, we've let Italy deal with terrorists on there land once already, and they screwed it up.

So what?! That doesn't give us the right to kidnap someone from their territory?

 

[Strider]

So what?! That doesn't give us the right to kidnap someone from their territory?

So, where suppose to just allow them to let another terrorist run free? I don't blame the CIA one bit for not wanting Italian officials to take over again.

 

[tR1cKy]

Even the Italians thought he was a terrorist. You know what I think? I don't think the Italians are ticked at us for grabbing one of their citizens, they're just mad because we're better at our jobs and got to him first.

The Italian judge ordered the arrest because here, in Italy, such an act is a kidnap. And judiciary work on those crimes is automatic: when there's evidence (or strong suspect) of a kidnap, the necessary actions must start. In other words, that judge couldn't act differently.

The mistake was made by the CIA agents that got "exposed". But i don't expect that they will be ever caught, nor i expect the italian 007 to spend a great effort to find them out.

 

[OrpheusPrime]

I think this judge is probably getting in some hot water, the italian gov. knows better than to get in between the US and suspected terrorists.

 

[Colonel]

I think this judge is probably getting in some hot water, the italian gov. knows better than to get in between the US and suspected terrorists.

Yea who knows what might happen , we might just launch off some Trident D3 Missles off of a Nuclear Sub we have stationed in the Mediterrian.

 

[OrpheusPrime]

By hot water I meant with his own government.

Im sure the italian gov. is getting serious flack from their contacts in washington. That makes the higherups mad, which in turn causes heads to roll further down the line (figuratively of course).

 

[tR1cKy]

Uh, things don't work exactly this way here. Judges do pretty whatever they want.

Want to know how things will be going? The judge will be ok because he did duty. The order of arrest will be received by local police districts, put somewhere and forgot. No significant resources will be employed to search the CIA agents and those guys will never be seen again.

Let's not forget that such an action, even when performed for the good of all, it's always illegal pretty much everywhere, so it must be carried over without being discovered. The blunder was made by the CIA agents who screwed up in being exposed, and they're probably the only ones to be in hot waters now.

 

[OrpheusPrime]

Let's not forget that such an action, even when performed for the good of all, it's always illegal pretty much everywhere, so it must be carried over without being discovered. The blunder was made by the CIA agents who screwed up in being exposed, and they're probably the only ones to be in hot waters now.

Thats a good point. Im sure they are in trouble as well. But I do find it hard to believe that there s no political reprocussion here. Unless the story isnt at all wide spread. (going to assume this is the answer, i've not seen this on TV news and that would certainly make headlines)

 

[Grisu]

Yeah, I'd be ticked too. But I'd be more ticked that my country was so slow in accumulating evidence that a foreign intelligence service had to step in to grab him.

you do realize that the italians probably could have grabbed him, but didn't since they didn't have the evidence? I very much doubt that the CIA had enough evidence themselves...

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

So, where suppose to just allow them to let another terrorist run free? I don't blame the CIA one bit for not wanting Italian officials to take over again.

Well, I can only hope that some legal secret gov't agreement was done for us to nab him. Otherwise, we crossed the line, even if a terrorist gets to roam free. Or Rome free as the case may be.

 

[vbraun]

Each country has decided on their own laws. They must uphold to them regardless of what is actually going on.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

So much for the US's call for cooperation and intel sharing.

Cooperation???
There is something like that on the level of FBI and counterparts.
But, the US authorities do not want to share any information. They at foremost do not help justice in other contries - all they want is to take custody of any suspect themselves.
That Imam on court in Italy? Doubtful if Italy itself had enough evidence.
Easily possible the US had - but they'd never share that.

Just remember the Motassadeq and Mzoudi cases in Germany.
Both ended with a 'not guilty' - despite the courts being convinced from the opposite (especially for Mzoudi).
But with the US refusal to share their informations it was unavoidable...

Question to the US members:
Are those two cases known in the US at all? Or is that something your media doesn't care, and your gov doesn't want to talk about?

 

[Drewcifer]

So, where suppose to just allow them to let another terrorist run free? I don't blame the CIA one bit for not wanting Italian officials to take over again.

Without the rule of law we have dictatorship, even if our government is elected. It is a concept we have fought wars and written a constitution to uphold, it should not be disregarded so casually. If we can ignore our allies laws to apprehend those who we cannot extradite we can jail those at home who we cannot convict. We should not abandon the core principles our nation was founded upon for short term reasons, there is no guarentee we will get them back. What kind of country do you want to live in? A free one? A just one?

The moral high ground is the only thing in life worth fighting for.