Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[Fistalis]

that is all.

 

[PrAyTeLLa]

Quote:
Another is that he wanted to work wth a company that that the freedom to make the kinds of games he wanted to make.
That one is funny.

Quote:
Shafer told us he could give out any info on what his stand alone project will be for the company as Stardock is still concentrating its efforts on updating Elemental, including the release of at least two expansion packs.
So, where is the info?

Quote:
"I approved the necessary budget in December to fund Elemental for both 2011 and 2011."
This one I love..

I'll wager my money on bad reporting/editing of that article, misquoting him or missing words out. Even if the written statement or verbal conversation that they have quoted from was re-printed verbatim, the writer of that article should have been edited to show the correct meaning (with the appropriate editorial notes). In the end, the writer looks unprofessional.

Obviously it meant to read "both 2011 & 2012" and from the context, it should read "he could [not] give out any info on what his stand alone project will be for the company as Stardock is still concentrating its efforts on updating Elemental, including the release of at least two expansion packs."

 

[lschnarch]

Shafer did work on the expansion that many people currently hating on him regard as the epitome of Civ, BtS.

Nobody just pops out of nowhere and becomes a lead designer.

I cannot speak for anybody else, but he was "responsible" for one scenario/mod which I tried out for 10 minutes and immediately left to never ever touch it again.
He was "co-lead designer" and AFAIK responsible for the espionage part which has been bashed here in this very forum (mainly by civ5 defenders, btw) for being poorly designed.

Most Civ fanatics knew Shafer's name well before Civ5. I'll repeat, you don't go from nothing to being a lead designer. He had a good resume.

You can make a good resume out of everything.
You can make a bad resume out of exactly the same.

He was the one advocating the 1upt turn, by many regarded as the main cause of almost any problem within Civ5.

Yes, I understand that there are some who like the new "combat" system in Civ5, as it is easy to understand and thanks to the AI gives you immediate feeling of success.
So, we have a mediocre wargame and the "empire building" part of former iterations has been shattered in pieces.

None of the different sub-systems in Civ5 are working consistently in combination.

For some, the wargame aspect is fun because the AI is helpless against the human. The others dislike the wargame aspet almost as much as the many other corrupted sub-systems ("diplomacy", "empire-building", civics, "tech race", UI, you name it).

For me this is sufficient to know that I don't want to spend money for anything in which J.Shafer would play a significant role in design.

 

[jpinard]

For me this is sufficient to know that I don't want to spend money for anything in which J.Shafer would play a significant role in design.

If you've seen my posts, you know how critical I've been. But statements like this are just so ignorant. Do you give up on Football player for life because they didn't hit the stats you wanted? Never expecting they can improve between seasons? Learning the game as they gain experience? Jon's post listed above shows just how tuned in he is to the criticism. I have more faith in him now than ever before, and I've had embarrassingly epic meltdowns about Civ V.

 

[zarakand]

So, apparently Stardock hasn't yet hit their quota this year for hiring mediocre game designers. I thought Kael was an odd choice (not due to FFH not being AWESOME but just him being rather green). But Shafer? Are they to hire the creative Team for Darksiders next?

Got to give them credit for trying. I'm not interested in Elemental, would rather wait for HOMM 6, but they do appear to be trying to fix the wrongs with Elemental.

I've never played their other games either, but according to a large number of people on this forum they have a decent track record with supporting games the make. Good luck to Jon, hope he does well.

 

[DaviddesJ]

So I go over to Stardock and start reading this post about Shafer joining. By the fourth reply a guy shows up and says he is the CEO.

"Yes. That is the public version of the explanation and the broadly correct description. I'm the CEO. All failures are on my doorstep."

Something tells me that game will do just fine.

Yeah, but that's what we thought about Elemental before it came out. The same questionable judgment that led Elemental to be such a mess is a legitimate reason to question whether Brad really understands what needs to be done to make really good strategy games. I am still hoping he does, in many ways it seems like Stardock may be the last best hope for the future, but I am not totally optimistic. I think if he can hire the right people to do the things they do best, there is potential there, but the jury is still out.

 

[skallben]

It is hilariously funny how people seem to have that desperate need to vent their rage and then pin all that rage onto one single person. Now that's some serious projection capabilities.

 

[Taquitos]

OMG nooo!!!! He is going to ruin YET ANOTHER turn-based strategy game.

If he managed to completely destroy a 20 year old franchise that was at its peak of development and success so easy, as he did with Civilization, I wonder what he is going to do to an already mediocre game that is just coming out of a huge barrage of critizism from its last iteration.

Seriously, this young kid is like cancer for gaming, and he is spreading fast.

For those fanboys of him out there, please come back in summer when Elemental is released and tell the rest of us we were wrong by thinking he ruined Civilization and he will ruin Elemental in the same way. I'm 100% sure that won't happen. Listen, there was one thing, ONE THING that changed from civ4-BTS and civ5, and that was the lead designer. Yes firaxis got rid of tons of people later on, but that was when civ5 was already on its last phases of development before release, this only means one thing, Jon Shafer is responsible for destroying civilization.

Moderator Action: While we give a lot of latitude in regards to critiquing people who made Civ 5 referring to someone as a "cancer" is not appropriate.

 

[Jesus is Lord33]

He was the one advocating the 1upt turn, by many regarded as the main cause of almost any problem within Civ5.

1. Main Cause of Almost Any Problem W/in Civ5

Combat is mutually exclusive from most every other aspect of Civilization. You go on to redeem yourself later in your post.

2. by many

I'm not one of those players who regard 1upt as a gamebreaking feature. I've yet to see any proof to support the claim that many [majority] regard 1UPT [badly].

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405888

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254



I've got evidence, I'm afraid you do not.

 

[lordsurya08]

Moderator Action: Pre-Emptive warning:

I don't want to see any character assassination etc in this thread, please.

What's character assassination?

 

[Thormodr]

I quite like Stardock as a company and Elemental as a game.

I hope Jon Shafer does well there. Apparently he'll be working on the modding
capabilities for Elemental and if anything, he is an excellent modder. I think he'll excel at that.

Elemental has also hired an excellent Fantasy/Sci Fi writer. At present I think Elemental's story is a bit dry. It should get spiced up a fair bit now.

Along with Kael being hired, Stardock is making all the right moves.

Elemental is already fun to play with the 1.1 patch. It looks like it will continue to get better and better.

Certainly I think Jon Shafer should get his share of the blame for the debacle that is Failure 5. However, Firaxis and 2K Games deserve the lion's share of it.

I think this will work out great for Stardock.

 

[LDiCesare]

Anyone know if Elemental has a demo version? I might have to check this game out at some point.

If you buy it, you can play the beta.

1.1 Elemental+ Brad's AI patch is a decent right game now , seriously- though it needs improvements in some areas, notably UI.

Well, some people are much more positive than I about the subject.

I somehow doubt Jon is the type of person to ignore everyone to intentionally make decisions to screw people over. I'm sure he truly believed they had the time and resources so everything he wanted to do would work out. They didn't and that is not Jon's fault. It did work out fine for thousands of players, just not many of us. Jon has seen the criticisms, is a really nice guy, and will only become a better game maker from it.

Brad Wardell is the same way

Well... Brad did ignore and even ban people (Dale for instance) who told him during the beta that the game was going to be an epic failure at launch because of many issues. The result was he intentionally got a game out that was such a massive failure he had to cancel another project which had to be funded on Elemental benefits.
Brad would like to be open-minded and listen to the fans, but he did ignore critics and the result was a big failure.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

OMG nooo!!!! He is going to ruin YET ANOTHER turn-based strategy game.

If he managed to completely destroy a 20 year old franchise that was at its peak of development and success so easy, as he did with Civilization, I wonder what he is going to do to an already mediocre game that is just coming out of a huge barrage of critizism from its last iteration.

Seriously, this young kid is like cancer for gaming, and he is spreading fast.

For those fanboys of him out there, please come back in summer when Elemental is released and tell the rest of us we were wrong by thinking he ruined Civilization and he will ruin Elemental in the same way. I'm 100% sure that won't happen. Listen, there was one thing, ONE THING that changed from civ4-BTS and civ5, and that was the lead designer. Yes firaxis got rid of tons of people later on, but that was when civ5 was already on its last phases of development before release, this only means one thing, Jon Shafer is responsible for destroying civilization.

This has to be some kind of a mock/parody post.....

 

[Thormodr]

If you buy it, you can play the beta.

Well, some people are much more positive than I about the subject.


Well... Brad did ignore and even ban people (Dale for instance) who told him during the beta that the game was going to be an epic failure at launch because of many issues. The result was he intentionally got a game out that was such a massive failure he had to cancel another project which had to be funded on Elemental benefits.
Brad would like to be open-minded and listen to the fans, but he did ignore critics and the result was a big failure.

It also takes a big man (or woman I guess) to admit when they're wrong. Brad admitted he was wrong and is doing everything he can to fix the problem. People who weren't happy with Elemental could get their money back. Seems fair. Would have been nice to see Firaxis offer the same for Failure 5.

Brad was overworked and tried to take too much on by himself. I think he's learned his lesson and has hired a lot of very competent people lately to fill very specific needs.

He seems to be learning from his mistakes and that's all you can really ask from a person. After all, nobody's perfect.

 

[jprc]

I am NOT happy. Stardock is my "last bastion" after what happened with the latest civ iteration. Does this mean that we Stardockers will have to endure another "renewed vission" from this person, as we civvers had to?

Not happy. Not happy at all. Count me among the ones that see Shafer as the responsible for the weakest civ ever. I don't want to see that happen to GalCiv, or the new Elemental for that matter... now that they finally have something playable, fun and engaging after patch 1.1.

NOT happy.

I am with you Ricardojahns.

I do not play Civ 5 because I don't like what Shafer did with it.
I bought Elemental, hoping to have something to chew, especially with Kael.

To me, Shafer joining Stardock for Elemental is BAD news.
I would have preferred to see Shafer joining Stardock for another project where his vision is compatible with the game concept...

 

[Guardian_PL]

Don't be silly.

Of course that Jon was a scapegoat hired specifically in case something goes wrong (read money-grabbing and cutting corners will become blatantly obvious and hardcore fans will get angry on Firaxis selling their beloved franchise to kids who can now WIN on Deity and go back to their shooters).

But that doesn't mean we should be whiteknighting and going "awww, poor Jon, he's having such a hard time though he's trying so hard". He's not. He knew what he is signing for, and took it for the money. He's built his entire careed on shattered dreams of fans like me, who've spent many hours during online multi Civ4 dreaming how amazing Civ5 will be and how Firaxis is the only name in the gaming industry worth trusting in.

I don't care that he couldn't do everything he wanted with Civ5. He still could do more, and certainly more than his "amazing" patch - a totally half-arsed job. Like a gardener in a hurry - "oh so you don't like how this tree I've planted look? Ok, snip snip snip (nerf nerf nerf), there - what a lovely stem, no? For 5.99 I can put a sign with Inca&Spain on it if you want and now I really must go kthankx bai"

All those squealing little groupies screaming "oh, mr Shafer, you're so amazing, now at Stradock wheeee!!!" should ask yourself what this guy really did? He's made a BORING mod to Civ4 and underdeveloped Espionage in BTS (why no promos for Spies?). Ah yes, and one more - he screwed up Civ5. I'm sure he told Brad Wardell heart rending stories how he had his hands tied at Firaxis but I don't care, I'm sure that with more spine and less bending he could make MUCH better game. He was a lead designer for crying out loud! Nobody goes around saying "oh, I can't credit Soren Johnson for Civ4, after all he was only a lead designer, a cog in the machine"

So Kael managed to accomplish something outstanding. Perhaps, oh I don't know because he's a project manager? So he can get the job done?

In my mind all that Shafer did was to screw Civ5 and bail. If that's an accomplishment I can go and be a "succesful" lead designer any time you want

 

[Padje Dog]

What's character assassination?

Character assassination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination

Go Stardock

 

[Horizons]

I hope his next game is better than his last.

 

[Oerdin]

If you listen to the EUIII forums, Paradox is messing up Paradox these days ^_^. Typical overblown remarks though.

Some of it is over the top but can anyone honestly say they didn't royally screw up with HOI3?

 

[Stilgar08]

Don't be insane.

Do you have any idea how much of the design process as well as scheduling is altered when you're dealing with a publicly traded company?

THIS coming from the CEO of Stardock to me is a big surprise. Hopefully not overinterpreting it means 2k has a lot to do with the state in which ciV has been released - e.g. "I don't care it's not finished - get it out long enough before x-mas"!

Maybe Shafers fault only was to cancel the job to late. OTOH what would other studios think of a designer who backs out of a game in process - maybe sth like difficult to get along with, wants everything going his way - therefore won't hire him anymore...

Seriously. If you don't like Civ V, think carefully about what it is you don't like about it. Seriously.

Seriously twice! If Brad gets out like this to protect his new employee, I wonder what he told him about the way he had to work on ciV... Although OTOH he has to defend his decision knowing very well that a lot of civfanatics are hardcore-Stradock-fans either...

Moreover, as some have already observed, Kael is the one taking over design on Elemental from me. We desperately need someone who has AAA experience in extending game engines.

Don't let the din of the Internet fool you. The outstanding qualities of a given person are not what they often seem to be. You guys who love Kael so much don't realize that what makes him a magical super being is that he's an enterprise level project manager. Similarly, what makes Jon so amazing is his ability to extend what is there in new and interesting ways. These are crucial, important and most crucially, rare talents in our industry.

To me this is a direct underlining of Jon's work on cIV-BTS, which was awesome and we loved him back then!

In a further context I'd think his first job will be to work on the expansions and patching of elemental which CAN BE a good thing... We'll have to see yet if he's capable of lead designing a game on his own... Some people are excellent creating structure and implement exciting stuff based on a good underlying structure (ie cIV or Elemental, which already exist before the work starts). Creating things more or less out of the air is a completely different thing (by that I mean lead designing a "new" game).

If you don't like Civ V, don't blame Jon. Don't blame Firaxis either. The truth behind games is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface.
As someone whose job for the past 2+ years has been to be a human punching bag for other people's decisions, I can tell you that the Internet "narrative" is almost never right.

Great post from a CEO and kudos to these last lines. All the Best for Shafer, Elemental and Stardock in total...

http://forums.stardock.com/403506/page/1/#2859941