June/July Patch Notes

That I think they missed an opportunity with England, they needed a little TLC for their UA as well.
Yeah, that would be fine.

The US got shafted as well. Their UA should be completely revamped. Make that civ either a production powerhouse civ or a cultural powerhouse civ (without the aid of cultural CSs - we've got Siam for that approach) to reflect what the US represents in the real world.

Brilliant work, well done Agent Cooper.
The best thing is that the US civ will probably be pissed off when reflecting over their own pathetic minutemen units when encountering those bearded Texan demi gods. :)
 
This sorta puts an end to the "Tradition vs Liberty" debate though.

"Tradition -> Legalism -> Landed Elite!"
"No, Liberty -> Citizenship -> Meritocracy!"

Firaxis: "Nerfing those policies now. How about trying Honor?"

Seriously, Landed Elite getting 0.5 happy for every 5 pop would've been better. New Landed Elite is just a bad policy.
 
Don't see the problem with that. Deity should be a level which is challenging even for the best players.

You have no idea what I am talking about do you? I am saying we should have at least a chance to be able to compete for the now(best wonder) in the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If through playing Deity it means we can't possibly get what was a crap wonder we didn't care, now WTF?
 
This sorta puts an end to the "Tradition vs Liberty" debate though.

"Tradition -> Legalism -> Landed Elite!"
"No, Liberty -> Citizenship -> Meritocracy!"

Firaxis: "Nerfing those policies now. How about trying Honor?"

Seriously, Landed Elite getting 0.5 happy for every 5 pop would've been better. New Landed Elite is just a bad policy.

Indeed, they nerfed it hardcore while totally buffing Honor and Piety, while Patronage continues to own and now Rationalism has a some nice effects. Piety v. Rationalism might be the new thing.
 
If the hanging gardenes really does give you 10 extra food per turn but you have to drop down to emporer level to get it WTF. I was playing recently on Deity as Arabia and ofcourse I passed the normal subscribed routes as videod by MadDjin etc, to get currency. Before i even got to Mathamatics (enabling the research of curency) and enabling the building of The Hanging Gardens, it had allready been completed. So are you listening to what I am trying to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!l Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The Freedom Tree got hit pretty bad too. The 100% culture bonus for cities with wonders SP is completely gone. Not to mention that Freedom now conflicts with Order?? What the f...?

Do I even need to mention that the pretty much pre-patch useless trees of Autocracy and Commerce are still completely useless? What the f...#2?
 
If the hanging gardenes really does give you 10 extra food per turn but you have to drop down to emporer level to get it WTF. I was playing recently on Deity as Arabia and ofcourse I passed the normal subscribed routes as videod by MadDjin etc, to get currency. Before i even got to Mathamatics (enabling the research of curency) and enabling the building of The Hanging Gardens, it had allready been completed. So are you listening to what I am trying to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!l Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's make this simple enough for you to follow....

  1. Deity is meant to be a challenge that a very small minority will be successful at.
  2. If you want a specific wonder on Deity, do not expect to be able to take it at your leisure. Rather, base your strategy around obtaining this wonder. Claiming that since you took the "normal subscribed routes" and got to mathematics late, the game sucks, is a supreme mark of idiocy.
  3. Before claiming the patch sucks, wait till you can play it. And remember to adapt your strategy rather than trying to play the same way you used to.
 
Let's make this simple enough for you to follow....

  1. Deity is meant to be a challenge that a very small minority will be successful at.
  2. If you want a specific wonder on Deity, do not expect to be able to take it at your leisure. Rather, base your strategy around obtaining this wonder. Claiming that since you took the "normal subscribed routes" and got to mathematics late, the game sucks, is a supreme mark of idiocy.
  3. Before claiming the patch sucks, wait till you can play it. And remember to adapt your strategy rather than trying to play the same way you used to.

The same applies to you as well!!!!!! We should be able to compete for a wonder whatwevwer levl!
 
Just for grins, I put togeather all the policies and how they will look after the changes. I think some of us are going to have to rethink the way we do things.

Liberty and Autocracy are no longer mutually exclusive.
Freedom, Autocracy and Order are now mutually exclusive.


Tradition - Opening increases border expansion and +3 culture, Finishing +15% Growth and +2 Food in each city
Aristocracy - provides +15% Production when building Wonders
Legalism - a free culture building in first 4 cities
Oligarchy - garrisoned units cost no maintenance, cities +100% Ranged combat strength with a garrisoned unit
Landed Elite - provides +1 Happiness for every 10 Citizens in each City.
Monarchy - +1 gold and -1 unhappiness for every 2 citizens in Capital


Liberty - Opening provides 1 culture in every city, Finishing get a Great Person of your choice
Collective Rule - speeds training of settlers by 50% + a free settler
Citizenship - tile improvement rate increased by 25% + a free worker
Republic - + 1 production and adds an additional 5% building production modifier
Representation - decrease the culture cost of future policies by 33% + starts a golden age <-- edit: that's DECREASE future policies, not increase. I changed the typo.
Meritocracy: +1 Happiness for each city connected to your capital, and -5% Unhappiness from citizens in non-occupied cities.


Honor - Opener grants 25% combat bonus vs. barbs, notifications of new barb camps, provides Culture for each barbarian killed. Finisher Grants gold for each enemy unit killed
Warrior Code - 1 free Great General + gives 15% melee unit production
Military Tradition - military units gain 1.5 times XP from combat
Discipline - + 10% combat strength for military units that have another military unit in an adjacent tile
Military Caste - provides +1 Happiness and +2 Culture for each city with a garrison.
Professional Army now reduces cost of upgrading units by 33% and provides +1 Happiness per defensive building (Walls, Castle, Arsenal, Military base).


Piety - Opener provides a 15% production bonus on Culture buildings, Finisher: -10% Culture cost of future Policies
Organized Religion - gives 1 Happiness per Monument, Temple and Monastery
Theocracy - increase gold yield by 10% in cities with a Temple.
Reformation - increases Culture in all cities with a Wonder by 33%, and starts a Golden Age.
Mandate of Heaven - 50% of excess happiness added each turn to total culture
Free Religion - provides only 1 free Policy but increases the Culture from Monuments, Temples and Monasteries by 1.


Patronage - Opener influence with city states degrades 25% slower, Finisher: Causes other players&#8217; influence with City States to decrease 33% more per turn than usual.
Philanthropy - gold gifts to city states produce 25% more influence
Scholasticism - city state allies provides science bonus of 25%
Cultural Diplomacy - quanity of resources gifted by city states increased by 100%, gifted luxuries increased by 50%
Aesthetics - minimum influence level with all city states is 20
Educated Elite - allied city states will occasionally gift Great People


Commerce - Opener gold output increased by 25% in your Capital, Finisher: +1 Gold per Specialist
Naval Tradition - +1 movement + 1 sight for naval combat units, also gives +1 moves to embarked units.
Merchant Navy - + 3 production in all coastal cities
Trade Unions - maintenance on roads and railroads reduced by 20%
Purchasing - cost of purchasing items in cities -25% gold
Protectionism - + 1 happiness from each luxury resource


Rationalism - Opener increases the Science granted when completing Research Agreements by 50%. Stacks with Porcelain Tower.
Rationalism Finisher: +1 Gold from Science buildings
Secularism - + 2 science from every specialist
Free Thought - + 1 science from evry trading post, now also increases University science yield by 17%
Scientific Revolutioin - 2 free technologies
Humanism - + 1 happiness from every univeristy, Public Schools and Observatories.
Sovereignty - + 15% science while the empire is happy


Freedom - Opener + 25% Great Person Points in all cities, Finisher: +100% yield from Great Tile Improvements and increase length of Golden Ages by 50%.
Constitution - provides +2 Culture per Wonder
Free Speech - provides 8 maintenance free units
Universal Suffrage - combat strength of cities increased by 33%
Civil Society - specialists consume only half the normal amount of food
Democracy - provides -50% Unhappiness per Specialist.


Autocracy - Opener reduces gold maintenance unit gold costs by 33%, Finisher: 30 turn attack bonus of +20%
Populism - wounded military units inflict 25% more damage than normal
Fascism - quanity of strategic resources produced by the empire increased by 100%
Militarism - gold cost of purchasing units reduced by 33%
Police State - provides 3 Happiness per Courthouse, and reduces the time it take to build Courthouses by 50%.
Total War - provides +15% Production when building Military Units and +15 XP for new units.


Order - Opener provides +1 Happiness per City, Finisher: +1 Food/Production/Science/Gold/Culture per city.
United Front - otheer players influence with city states dcreases 33% more per turn than normal
Planned Economy - increases Science yield by 25% in cities with a Factory
Nationalism - 25% attack bonus when fighting in friendly territory
Socialism - gold maintenance costs of buildings reduced by 15%
Communism - + 2 Production per city and 10% Production towards buildings in each city.
 
Are you with it, or have you been on something!! If we Can't possibly get this wonder, is that really fair?

No it's not fair. Few things are on deity, if you want to play fair play on King or below. I'm sure Deity players will beat the difficulty days after the patch anyway.
 
Are you with it, or have you been on something!! If we Can't possibly get this wonder, is that really fair?

Deity is not meant to be fair.

If you cannot accept that fact, drop your difficulty level. As the patch notes themselves say.

The same applies to you as well!!!!!! We should be able to compete for a wonder whatwevwer levl!

Absolutely... If you are willing to base your entire strategy around obtaining a wonder, you should be able to pull it off, even on Deity.

Absolutely nothing you said, however, indicated that you were willing to do so.

Adapt your strategy, or drop your difficulty. Those are your options; Pointless ing is just that, pointless. ;)
 
Thanks for posting each of the policy trees as they will be constituted in the patch Spider, it makes it a lot easier to visualize them as a whole. They really did rip up the trees, and some of them did need it, so that's fine with me personally. Cultural victories in particular feel like they'll be a lot different since Freedom is much different than it used to be. And at least there's a lot of +happiness policies, which are definitely going to be needed now, with all the happiness nerfs.
 
Hanging Gardens now give 10 Food instead of 1 population per city and Happiness.
"...had I been consulted with developing Civilization 5, you know, I would have added a food right there and made those Gardens give 11 Food instead of 10. Where can you go from 10 anyway? That's right. Nowhere. 11 will give you that extra push over the cliff that 10 doesn't. You know, it's 1 more isn't it?

And what's with only including 10 SP Trees...?"



Nigel Tufnel
CEO
Tufnel Miniature Horses & Game Design
 
Are you with it, or have you been on something!! If we Can't possibly get this wonder, is that really fair?

It's all fair if you play on Prince. Above that, it's progressively more unfair. That's the challenge, isn't it? You can get all the wonders you want if you take them from others.
 
At first glance I thought the game just became even longer and more boring.
On second/third look ... maybe not.
Many new ideas are dancing around my head ... I'm anxious to give them a try.
 
At first glance I thought the game just became even longer and more boring.
On second/third look ... maybe not.
Many new ideas are dancing around my head ... I'm anxious to give them a try.

A lot of folks think that happiness was made a more severe problem with the patch, but there are many counters to unhappiness, especially in the SPs. I don't think it will be as big an issue as people think.
 
I read through the patch notes and I do like most of them (or at least I am indifferent to them) however, I must say I don't like the new bonus for the Pyramids (to be fair I don't think any Civ game has come up with an actually good bonus for the wonder). As well as this, I don't get the new Free Speech bonus. I'm always fine with gameplay trumping realism but here it just really does not mesh well together.

But considering the amounts of changes only having two small issues is not that bad in my books.
 
Well, National College is out the window, as are one-city games. As are many-city games...and conquering will be a pain now, without Theocracy. Overall, it made every victory type except for Science harder (even Time, darned AI has a backup plan now). Tut. Looks like I'll be at negative happiness a lot now... :/
 
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