K-mod Deity Fun -- Collaboration of SGOTM teams

[kossin]

Good!

Pity we were too conservative with settlers but that's done.

Do we want to go to trade bait before getting Mysticism?

 

[Folket]

Good!

Pity we were too conservative with settlers but that's done.

Do we want to go to trade bait before getting Mysticism?

I'm just afraid that we will be to far behind. I'm a little afraid of the AIs tech rate. By the time we get Aesthetics they will have alphabet, mathematics and halfway to currency. Or even more if they start trading.

I'm sure other players are more experienced. I have only played 2 deity games myself and not played Kmod before.

 

[Duckweed]

Great that we secured GLH, a very solid winning step.

I'm just afraid that we will be to far behind. I'm a little afraid of the AIs tech rate. By the time we get Aesthetics they will have alphabet, mathematics and halfway to currency. Or even more if they start trading.

I would not worry too much about being backward. Philosophy and Edu could easily let us catch up, moreover, there is always the last straw -- EP.

I am going to take the set for the moment and try to list some issues to initiate the discussions. If pomthom is interested in taking over a couple days later, you are welcome to do so.

 

[Duckweed]

Some thoughts for next set:

Tech: Mys->Writing

Capital

After taking a close look, I think what Folket suggested is better. We lose hammers and commerce in capital, but the gain from earlier 3rd/4th city has the snowball effect, especially the city is able to pay itself immediately. After 2 pop whip of settler -> granary->archer

Stone site -- will settle when seeing Darius' settler, produce worker or ?

Next city -- 1NE of the Corn, or ? Produce granary and whip monument at size 2.

Gold city -- what's after the current galley, maybe monument if still no religion or ?

2 Workers will prioritize improving the Corn while roading. Then try to connect the stone site and improve the stone.

Anything else that I missed?

 

[kossin]

Agree with Folket's suggested micro (2-pop settler).

3rd city - NE of corn for sure unless we split into 3 cities (city tile is worth 2F1H after all).

Stone site - since it's not coastal, settling it now is a commerce hit so delay.

Gold city - I have terrible luck with religion spreads so we can start a Monument > granary. WB can come from capital.

Workers - sounds right.

~~~

We can OB with De Gaulle now and Darius next turn. Maybe trade resources to Darius when cows are connected.

 

[Duckweed]

We can OB with De Gaulle now and Darius next turn. Maybe trade resources to Darius when cows are connected.

They are worst enemy each other, we don't gain anything from OB with DG. OB with Darius now has the great risk of losing the double fish site.

 

[kossin]

Does k-mod AI settle through your borders?
I've not seen it in the changelog.

 

[Folket]

I have put out markers on where I think we should settle.

Best case is if we can get 1E of stone.

 

[Folket]

I think we should settle 1E of stone and 2W1N of pigs. Stone city can build worker and the other city can have a monument choped/built in five turns. It does leave a maze Darius can travel but I find it very unlikely he will do that before settling fish/gems.

Then we settle fish/pigs/corn. 3 6 food tiles makes a great GP farm. And then we settle copper sugar.

 

[Duckweed]

Does k-mod AI settle through your borders?
I've not seen it in the changelog.

I guess the 3rd city location depends more on Darius' expansion. Moreover, I'm not sure sure how K-mod makes change on AI's expansion. Does the blocking still work? How aggressive will the AI settle from their culture border? The only thing we are sure is that "The earlier bird gets food".

This was the basic reason of all our recent discussions about city locations. Although pomthom said the blocking worked from other player's opinion. I might buy it if that's his own experience. As far as I know that warlord AIs will go over the blocking city and settle far away from their culture border. If K-mod claims to be smart, it should not ignore this change. That's the reason why I want to settle the stone site in sub-optimal way, or call it conservative way. Edit: Our north sites are actually adjacent to Persian culture border on the other side of the water.

So, the settle pattern has gotten enough posts, I have to call votes for the following issues:

The stone site
The site for the coming 4th settler
Whether to OB with DG and Darius now.

 

[Manco Capac]

Does k-mod AI settle through your borders?
I've not seen it in the changelog.

Never saw that.

 

[Duckweed]

It'll be busier from tomorrow since most of us are committed in SGOTM19, do we need to pause the game completely or still get it going but slow down a bit.

 

[Mitchum]

I'm busy in RL and will spend most of my Civ time on SGOTM, so I vote to pause the game but you guys are welcome to continue without me if there are some that want to continue now.

 

[Folket]

I prefer not to pause the game.

 

[kossin]

Since I don't plan on devoting too much time to SGOTM, I'm fine with continuing this.

I've already voiced my opinions on the issues at hand.

 

[vranasm]

as a lurker my feelings are that if you "pause" the game it's basically the same as abandoning it and not finishing...

 

[soundjata]

Yes let's not pause.
I'll be able to play a set the week after next.

 

[Duckweed]

Played 4 turns and I have to stop

T70 Darius's settler comes with an immortal, settled stone site for complete block. Feel free to test whether Darius will go pass the stone city without complete block, or we can see the result a few turns before our 5th settler is sure to claim the double fish site.

Spoiler :

T72 While our archer is trying to enable the trade route with Sury, he saw something interesting -- a slowly moving dagger. No doubt that we are the target!

Spoiler :

I need to revise the plan for the coming DOW. Some information about the AI's behaviors is welcome. Tachywaxon/Manco Capac mentioned that they only attack the city when are sure to win. The big problem now is how many archers are needed in city to deter that stack and how many archers are enough to protect the gold mine.

 

[Manco Capac]

Sadly, we can't define the type of war against the human in K-mod because WHEOOH is only defined for wars against the AI. Or ongoing wars.

This was taken out for the human because it was too abusive to Karadoc.

====

// This function has been significantly modified for K-Mod
bool CvUnitAI::AI_stackAttackCity(int iPowerThreshold)
{
    PROFILE_FUNC();
CvPlot* pCityPlot = NULL;
int iSearchRange = 1;

FAssert(canMove());

for (int iDX = -(iSearchRange); iDX <= iSearchRange; iDX++)
{
for (int iDY = -(iSearchRange); iDY <= iSearchRange; iDY++)
{
CvPlot* pLoopPlot = plotXY(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), iDX, iDY);

if (pLoopPlot != NULL && AI_plotValid(pLoopPlot))
{
//if (pLoopPlot->isCity() || (pLoopPlot->isCity(true) && pLoopPlot->isVisibleEnemyUnit(this)))
if (pLoopPlot->isCity()) // K-Mod. We want to attack a city. We don't care about guarded forts!
{
if (AI_potentialEnemy(pLoopPlot->getTeam(), pLoopPlot))
{
//if (!atPlot(pLoopPlot) && ((bFollow) ? canMoveInto(pLoopPlot, /*bAttack*/ true, /*bDeclareWar*/ true) : (generatePath(pLoopPlot, 0, true, &iPathTurns) && (iPathTurns <= iRange))))
if (!atPlot(pLoopPlot) && getGroup()->canMoveOrAttackInto(pLoopPlot, true, true))
{
// K-Mod
if (iPowerThreshold < 0)
{
// basic threshold calculation.
CvCity* pCity = pLoopPlot->getPlotCity();
// This automatic threshold calculation is used by AI_follow; and so we can't assume this unit is the head of the group.
// ... But I think it's fair to assume that if our group has any bombard, it the head unit will have it.
if (getGroup()->getHeadUnit()->bombardRate() > 0)
{
// if we can bombard, then we should do a rough calculation to give us a 'skip bombard' threshold.
iPowerThreshold = ((GC.getMAX_CITY_DEFENSE_DAMAGE()-pCity->getDefenseDamage()) * GC.getBBAI_SKIP_BOMBARD_BASE_STACK_RATIO() + pCity->getDefenseDamage() * GC.getBBAI_SKIP_BOMBARD_MIN_STACK_RATIO()) / std::max(1, GC.getMAX_CITY_DEFENSE_DAMAGE());
}
else
[COLOR="Green"][B]{
// if we have no bombard ability - just use the minimum threshold
iPowerThreshold = GC.getBBAI_SKIP_BOMBARD_MIN_STACK_RATIO();
}[/B][/COLOR]
FAssert(iPowerThreshold >= GC.getBBAI_ATTACK_CITY_STACK_RATIO());
}
// K-Mod end

if (getGroup()->AI_compareStacks(pLoopPlot, true) >= iPowerThreshold)
{
pCityPlot = pLoopPlot;
}
}
}
break; // there can only be one.
}
}
}
}

if (pCityPlot != NULL)
{
if( gUnitLogLevel >= 1 && pCityPlot->getPlotCity() != NULL )
{
logBBAI(" Stack for player %d (%S) decides to attack city %S with stack ratio %d", getOwner(), GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getCivilizationDescription(0), pCityPlot->getPlotCity()->getName(0).GetCString(), getGroup()->AI_compareStacks(pCityPlot, true) );
logBBAI(" City %S has defense modifier %d, %d with ignore building", pCityPlot->getPlotCity()->getName(0).GetCString(), pCityPlot->getPlotCity()->getDefenseModifier(false), pCityPlot->getPlotCity()->getDefenseModifier(true) );
}

FAssert(!atPlot(pCityPlot));
AI_considerDOW(pCityPlot);
getGroup()->pushMission(MISSION_MOVE_TO, pCityPlot->getX_INLINE(), pCityPlot->getY_INLINE(), pCityPlot->isVisibleEnemyDefender(this) ? MOVE_DIRECT_ATTACK : 0);
return true;
}

return false;
}

	<Define>
<!-- Base ratio of stack strengths for AI considering skipping bombard and just attacking enemy city.
This ratio is reduced by the AI's best attacker odds and how long it will take to bombard the city.
Lower means AI will more readily skip bombarding. BBAI default: 300 -->
<DefineName>BBAI_SKIP_BOMBARD_BASE_STACK_RATIO</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>260</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<!-- Minimum stack strength ratio for AI to skip bombarding city and just attack, higher is more conservative. BBAI default: 150 -->
<DefineName>BBAI_SKIP_BOMBARD_MIN_STACK_RATIO</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>140</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

I'll look into AI_compareStacks(pLoopPlot, true) later.

It is rather easy to find stuff in Karadoc's stuff. Took me 7 mins.

 

[Manco Capac]

Duckweed, you can call Manco for simplicity. Or copy/paste.