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Prince
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I've been trying to do the Legalism trick with Siam in GnK. What buildings are required to build in order to be able to do so?
Legalism Abuse: GnK edition
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Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
Monuments and Amphitheaters - essentially all normal culture generating buildings available, including Monasteries in cities that are working incense or wine luxuries.
The gambit still works flawlessly in G&K - just make sure you have 4 cities ready for maximum effect
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Prince
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It's to get free culture buildings in your first four cities. If you have already built a Monument, you'll get Amphitheaters for free the moment you get to the tech. For example: If you have four cities and all of them have Amphitheaters then you pop Legalism, then by the time you research Acoustics, all four cities will have free Opera Houses (you don't have to build them and they cost no maintenance.)
Tachii
Procrastinator
I'd time your policy too so you don't get it early or late or something.
prince_caspian
Prince
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Unlike vanilla, monasteries don't count as they are now considered religious buildings. So only monuments and amphitheaters. Not sure about Songhai but I think MPMs probably count, but that's Songhai not Siam. If it weren't the case you'll have to buy all those pesky pagodas/cathedrals/mosques too. 
Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
In relations with specifically Siam, it means that your first four cities will get free Universities, if you have monuments + amphitheaters + libraries in all of them, have researched Education and choose Legalism. This happens becuase Siams UB is the Wat - a University that also yields culture points. As such, it is counted as a culture building - this mechanism still works in GnK.
Getting 4 Universities instantly without having to sink a single hammer into building them at that point in any game, is very powerful, perhaps even gamechanging.
For all other civs, you'll get any of the other culture buildings - whatever is next in line.
I wasn't aware that Monasteries wasn't included in the equation anymore - don't they still yield culture? I didn't build any in my just finished Siam game, so I don't know...
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Prince
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Thanks for the info! Getting to that point without bankrupting yourself would be a bit hard, but man, the science boost would be awesome! Any benchmark that could be set when this can be achieved (turn number on Standard)?
AlienFromBeyond
Chieftain
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They do, but they're a religious building like Pagodas, Mosques, and Cathedrals, so they are separate from other buildings.
I understand what the trick is for this, but wondering more about the specifics on tech path/building order to time everything correctly. And has anyone tried this with the Celts? Seems like it'd be good with the Ceilidh Hall.
Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
The trick is to pretty much follow the Tradition 4-city opening strategy (described in detail in another thread), though you won't go deep into the Tradition tree until after you've researched Education. You'll probably spend most of the first SPs on Liberty policies, which might save you from buying the 3rd settler for gold and you will also get an early worker.
Gold is usually not the biggest challenge, that is if you place the 3 additional cities at locations with food, production and luxuries. You'll trade any surplus luxuries to finance your opening strategy.
After Education, finish the Tradition tree for more growth and you'll most likely have researched Aquaducts by then to fully exploit the Tradition finisher. The trade-off you make is slower initial growth in exchange for a massive science boost midgame. Of course, you can always get more food from maratime city.states if they have quest you can perform or you have extra gold to burn. Personally though, I prefeer to use gold on cultural citystates to speed up getting policies. But do keep in mind that your cities need a larger population, if you want to fill the Wats with specialists and take full advantage of the gambit at once.
I don't really have a solid benchmark for this anymore, considering that a lot has changed with GnK. But do beeline for Education and never forget defense when playing on Immortal/Deity.
@Charlie_B - I think he's speaking of the buildings you get via Leagalism - they are always maintanence free no matter what building it is.
Tachii
Procrastinator
If I beeline for Education, on a good day it could be as early as T100ish and getting a University at T110 by hard production (it's still kind of sad when I see a science AI like Korea could reach Renaissance during that same period though). But obviously stuff changes depending on your surrounding terrain, enemy civs, CS, and so on. I might have to get Iron Working or Construction or something. But I wouldn't go past T140-150. That's kind of late to get Education, unless you've been playing a war game and know for sure you'll be getting more puppet cities to compensate for the early game slower science.
(Oh and this is Immortal).
(Oh and this is Immortal).
Actually, you don't have to wait for Education. Beeline Drama & Poetry and build (or buy in your low production cities) Amphitheaters in your first 4 cities. Once you reach Education, the Wats should appear automatically. The same goes with Acoustics for Opera Houses (or Ceilidh Halls).
budweiser
King of the Beers
An amphitheatre is 500g btw.
whoa!! I would think then that Siam would easily have an edge on the other civs then! This civ should be thrown into that "unofficial" research challenge, no doubt. This way you could REX quite easily without sacrificing beakers
A normal strategy would be to save $$ to outright buy one or two univ once Edu is researched. Now if you have 6 cities you could have the 4 free univ plus 2 bought!!
MadDjinn have made a LP showing the Siam Legalism trick. Here's a link to the YT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glTFX1jQNrs&list=SP28EEEAA375B1BEFD&index=1&feature=plpp_video
Hope he don't mind sharing this stuff here. Although it was for Vanilla, I think it can be applied in GnK as well.
Cheers
Hope he don't mind sharing this stuff here. Although it was for Vanilla, I think it can be applied in GnK as well.
Cheers
Syntax Error
Prince
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Managed to do this. Missed rationalism by one turn because of an auto-assigned Artist that I wasn't able to notice.
Four-city base:
Turn 115, Wats went online, 120 or so BPT.
Turn 171, BPT became 400+ with Public Schools and Full-time Specialists
Turn 281, Spaceship and 1250+ BPT.
Only three RA's were signed.
Four-city base:
Turn 115, Wats went online, 120 or so BPT.
Turn 171, BPT became 400+ with Public Schools and Full-time Specialists
Turn 281, Spaceship and 1250+ BPT.
Only three RA's were signed.
I'm a little vexed by how great this 'trick' is. Surely if going for tradition you should fill it out ASAP (taking the monuments) or 3 monuments one amphitheater. The real prize is the free aquaducts so delaying them for free Wats it a shot in the foot right?
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